[Buddha-l] Personality disorders and anatta

[Dante Rosati]

it could help in allowing one to get out of ones head, which is where the problems are to begin with. again, anatta and dependent origination can help keep ones mind from imploding on itself. even better is realizing that there is no mind to begin with. 

On Nov 25, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Stefan Detrez <stefan.detrez at gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you know what place anatta takes in this whole? In what way is it
> different from a Hindu-approach which incorporates atta? As far as I
> understand, anatta is of no major importance in helping a patient out.  Or
> is it?
> 
> 2010/11/25 Dante Rosati <danterosati at gmail.com>
> 
>> i dont think its an east-west thing. its a question of focusing on yourself
>> snd your horrible old condition vs focusing on helping others. in some
>> traditions its called bodhicitta, in others charity or doing unto others.
>> the basis of medically based therapies seems to be  increasing the focus on
>> ones self, either by endlessly digging into the black hole of the past or
>> completely screwing up your brain chemistry, usually both.
>> 
>> On Nov 25, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Stefan Detrez <stefan.detrez at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> That's a bold generalization. I feel however uncomfortable with the idea
>>> that non-Western psychotherapies are in every way better than all Western
>>> psychotherapies. Not wanting to generalize, I think some Western
>>> psychotherapies have, with trial and error, produced good results. How
>> ideas
>>> of atta and anatta are involved is unknown to me. Can you point me to
>>> Buddhist-grounded therapies which deal with for instance psychotic
>>> personality disorders or adhd? Can such therapies deal with these fine
>>> spectra? How do you say to a psychotic person he or she's self-obsessed
>> and
>>> should develop bodhicitta. Do you think it will cure that person?
>>> 
>>> 2010/11/25 Dante Rosati <danterosati at gmail.com>
>>> 
>>>> i have no idea. based on what ive seen of the "benefits" of "western
>>>> approaches to psychotherapies", i wouldn't touch them with a ten foot
>> pole.
>>>> ive only seen people get worse under their guidance.
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 25, 2010, at 2:34 PM, Stefan Detrez <stefan.detrez at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Ok, thank you, Dante. Is the practice of bodhicitta adopted in Western
>>>>> approaches of psychotherapies? Can you tell me if and how this has been
>>>>> done?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2010/11/25 Dante Rosati <danterosati at gmail.com>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> the diagnosis does nothing. the practice of bodhicitta does
>> everything.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Stefan Detrez <stefan.detrez at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How would the diagnosis of self-obsession and mental illness help
>>>> someone
>>>>>>> who has developed a personality disorder as a consequence of underage
>>>>>> sexual
>>>>>>> abuse and exposure to extreme violence? People with such pasts have
>>>> been
>>>>>>> known to have an unstable self image. Just a question.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2010/11/25 Dante Rosati <danterosati at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> low self esteem, like most forms of mental inbalance, is caused by
>>>>>>>> self-obsession. mental illness = narrowing horizon. generating
>>>>>>>> bodhicitta is probably the most immediately effective treatment,
>>>>>>>> although anatta meditations proabably wouldn't hurt either.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dante
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Stefan Detrez <
>>>> stefan.detrez at gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Psychotherapy based on Buddhist understandings of the workings of
>> the
>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>> look promising from a scientific point of view. However, I have
>> often
>>>>>>>>> wondered how such therapeutic approach works on patients who suffer
>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> low
>>>>>>>>> self esteem, have no stable sense of a self, don't 'know how they
>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>> are', etc. Wouldn't the notion of anatta be 'nothing new' to them,
>> or
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> very problem itself, being that the sense of the absence of a self
>> IS
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> contributing factor to the existence of the personality disorder?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Stefan
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>> religion
>>>>> more seriously than the practioners' - Sir Jonathan Miller.
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 'In some awful, strange, paradoxical way, atheists tend to take religion
> more seriously than the practioners' - Sir Jonathan Miller.
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