[Buddha-l] Non-Arising

[Dee]

It might be worth mentioning, as nobody has as yet, that ksanti is the third of four moments on the mahayana path of application (prayoga-marga in case anyone wants to quibble over translations), the final one being the peak experience that is possible for a wordly mind - after that its transcendental and unworldy and insight into emptiness and so on. So the notion of certainty might seem really important in this context, as it would be certainty that leads to the path of seeing, as in, finally having an unmediated percetion of how things are. Just my two-bobs worth, although I get the distinct impression that no-one who contributes to this list has any beleif in transcendence and probably no time for unmediated experience, which is a shame because the whole point of a personal path has been discredited at this point.

ignorantly yours,
dee kaye 

--- On Wed, 2/24/10, alx437 at charter.net <alx437 at charter.net> wrote:

> From: alx437 at charter.net <alx437 at charter.net>
> Subject: [Buddha-l] Non-Arising
> To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:54 AM
> Dear Bernhard,
> 
>     I'm glad that this thread has been revived,
> it has saved us from further discussion of hemorrhoids at
> least. My impression of ksanti is that it can usually be
> translated as tolerance or patience. In the
> anutpattika-ksanti that started this whole thing off, it
> suggests that although one can come to understand the idea,
> and even have a direct experience of it, one is never quite
> comfortable with it, as the idea/experience of having one's
> conceptual structures undermined is deeply unsettling. So I
> disagree with Dan about this. Perhaps I am mistaken. 
>      As for the role of the emotions,
> Joanna's concern, it seems fairly clear that in Indian
> religion, at the time of the Upanishads, and going into the
> early phase of Buddhism at least, there was a generally
> negative attitude towards emotional involvement. Detachment
> was the order of the day. I think this is indicated by the
> division of the world realms into the realm of desire (the
> kama-dhatu), the form realm, and the formless realm. I
> believe that the main distinction between the desire realm
> and the form realm is that in the form realm one has less
> emotional involvement with experience, though an Abhidharma
> scholar would be better able to clarify this. 
>     I guess that is all I have for now, hope that
> you will find it helpful. 
> 
>                
>    All the best,      Alex
> Naughton
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