[Buddha-l] karma and consequences

[Piya Tan]

Robert, you need to state whether you are expressing your own opinion or
which sutta/s you are citing.

Piya

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Ellis <robertupeksa at talktalk.net>wrote:

> Chris Fynn wrote:
>
> >>Isn't karma nothing more than that - intentional actions and their
> consequences??<<
>
> The claim that karma is nothing more than intentional actions and their
> consequences?is widely used (in my experience) by Western Buddhists to try
> to make karma palatable to Western audiences: but?this claim?is
> intellectually dishonest. The consequences of intentional actions are a
> necessary part of karmic doctrine, but by no means all of it. The
> metaphysical stuff gets smuggled in by stealth?through karma being presented
> in a common-sense fashion.
>
> The law of karma claims not only that intentional actions have
> consequences, but that they always have consequences which are an equivalent
> moral requital for the intentional action. For example, if we tell an
> intentional lie, at some point the equivalent karmic effects of that lie
> will get back at us, whether through mental processes (e.g. guilt) or
> physical ones (some form of physical suffering equivalent to the lie). We
> have no way of telling through experience whether this is the case, as some
> lies seem to have a bad effect, but others do not.?The world is also full
> of?good people dying of cancer, and nasty dictators living in happy
> retirement, which also suggest counter-examples. The acceptance of karma,
> then, whether or not it incorporates rebirth, is a faith response to a
> dogmatic teaching. It should not be confused with an appreciation of the
> effects of our mental states and our actions such as can be?directly
> experienced, and developed through meditation practice.?
>
> Best wishes,
> Robert
>
>
> Robert Ellis
>
> website: www.moralobjectivity.net
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