[Buddha-l] Historical vs Psychological Religious Narratives

[Joy Vriens]

Richard wrote:

>> And we know that the Eightfold Path is the proper way to end suffering, not 
>> because we have walked it all the way til the end of suffering, but because 
>> we know the Buddha did and said it was. 
 
>That may be true for some, but for many confidence in the eightfold path comes  
>from noticing improvements in one's life as a result of following the path.  
>One need not believe that there will be an end of pain; it is sufficient to  
>know that there has been, and continues to be, an incremental reduction. 

I can't say how much of the improvements of following a path are due to the effects of suggestion and autosuggestion, so I won't say it. :-)

Buddhists traditionally believe(d) in the end of pain or immortality. That some or even many Buddhists adjust the end of pain by making the Buddhist end goal more realistic is something I can only agree with. But in that case it would be fair to give some or many Christians the same right to adjust their beliefs (instead of resurrection they could believe in almost-resurrection or in a reduction of deadness etc.).  

Another small remark, I am not sure it is a good idea to apply logical or mathematical equations to something as subjective as the end of pain. The possibility to reduce pain ("improvement") doesn't automatically imply that to end pain is therefore possible too. If we rest, we will be less tired, but it is not sure we will reach the end of tiredness through rest. And to apply an incremental function to this reasoning is even more absurd IMO. It could suggest that the Buddhist path is a mathematical equation in which pain is a negative (-) value and in which the end of pain would be zero (0). One could then wonder why the Buddhists would stop at 0 if they could move on to +1, +100 etc. Coming to think of it, some Buddhists actually do. 

And one can wonder whether those incremental improvements are definitely acquired, whether they can be stored or transferred etc. Coming to think of it,...