[Buddha-l] Antarabhava

[Vicente Gonzalez]

ND>   1. Those who accept in antarabhava, how do you refute the
ND> Kathavathu (of there are only three types of existence), other
ND> than just saying its a later text?
ND>    
ND>   2. Those who reject, how do you explain about mindful
ND> conception mentioned in DN 28 & DN 33.
ND>    

It is truly a new discussion.

Although I would point a third possibility: both things are not
opposite but they are showing the same truth.

Probably the histories about the later manipulations of buddhist text
to introduce rebirth are the only manipulation. A very different thing
is when the buddhist arising of beings has been distorted to inoculate
the atman idea, then causing the absurdity of many buddhist who wish
to be born in this or that way. It seems they don't wish the cease of
rebirth, and of course it is not the Buddha teaching.

At the other side, in the West there is an strong defence of theism
from any means, and most times this discussion is polluted by third
hidden purposes; maybe social, political, religious.. I don't know.
It can be a waste of time.

I think the Buddha teaching is quite clear in this point. Teaching is
focused in the cease of rebirth of the -self idea. Therefore, one must
apply this teaching not only in the contemplation of the own -self but
also in the contemplation of the world, in where beings are also
arising and dissapearing.

So truly there is not any difference. Just we put the difference
because our ignorance. In this way, in our inner ambit we speculate
"it is my self, it is not my self", and in our outer ambit we
speculate "they born, they die".


M 79:  "Udayi, it's from me, who recollect, one birth, two  births,
--- recollect the manifold previous births with all modes and
details,  that this question about the beginning should have been
asked. I could have  convinced your mind answering a question about
the beginning. Udayi, with the  purified heavenly eye beyond human,
I see beings disappearing and appearing in  unexalted and exalted
states, beautiful and ugly, in good and bad states--- I  know beings
according to their actions. The question about the beginning should 
have been asked from me. I could have convinced your mind answering
that  question. Yet Udayi, let alone the beginning and let alone the
end, I  will teach you, when this is, this comes to be: when this,
arise this arises.  When this is not present, this is not, and when
this cease, this  ceases."


best regards,