[Buddha-l] Enlightened golems

[Joy Vriens]

Michael wrote:

>Besides, isn't it what one does with the results of the hard work? If I 
>could suddenly read Greek, I'd just start devouring old philosophy 
>texts; not sure my struggles would have been in the least 
>character-building. 

I think you said a key word there: character-building. I believe the whole "spiritual" approach is one that is concerned with the attitude towards things rather than those things themselves. As long as one focuses on the attitude one is more on the side of the "spiritual", if one veers too much towards the "things", one is becoming more inclijed towards "spiritual materialism".    

>Awakening for all - if that leads to desirable behavior, e.g., a large 
>measure of peace on earth - would be good no matter how it came about, 
>wouldn't it? 

But awakening is a question of definition. And I would tend to take the Buddha's approach like in the 
DN 13 Tevijja Sutta where young Brahmins ask him the way to union with Brahma. if it's peace on earth etc etc you want, why not directly go for those? 
 
>But it remains unclear just what effect awakening has on the person, if 
>any.  
> 
>What do you think? I don't know, having never met anyone either 
>claiming enlightenment nor following a religion that included such 
>concepts. 

I'm the wrong person to ask :-) 
I see the awakening issue as a sort of tar baby. As long as one goes for awakening or talks about awakening one isn't awakened. ;-)