[Buddha-l] there he goes again (sam harris)

[Vicente Gonzalez]

Richard Hayes wrote:

RH> I cannot experience my dog's absence, but I can know it through inference. I
RH> can reason it out through a process that looks like this: "My dog is the sort
RH> of object that is visible, and therefore I would see him if he were present.
RH> I do not see him. Therefore, he is not present."

yes, I agree. It is an inference. Although it doesn't invalidate the
existence of an experience of something which is absent. Do you agree?
The experience exists. I don't say that we can experience a dog who is
not present. Just that we can experience that a dog is not present.

So in the same way, the experience of a -self who is not present it's
not possible for the self. However, there is the possibility of the
experience that a -self is not present. Of course, this experience
cannot be sustained by the self. Simply. the experience it would exist.
It is so logical as we know that when we cannot establish that all the
things of this world they will disappear after our death.

RH> Note that the key to this inference is that the object whose absence I can
RH> infer must be one that would be experienced if it were presence. This sort of
RH> inference would not be conclusive with respect to the kind of object that
RH> would not be experienced even if it were present, such as space. Another sort
RH> of object about which no legitimate inference of presence or absence can be
RH> inferred is the self. So any claims about the self---whether one claims a
RH> self is rpesent or absent---is an unwarranted claim and therefore a dogma.

I agree. But then, if we cannot establish that the self is present or
absent, then neither we cannot establish the impossibility of the
overcoming of suffering. Because we don't know if what is experiencing
the suffering now, this truly exist.

RH> That also is a dogma that some people love to spout, probably because they
RH> think it will make them sound very Buddhist, perhaps even a little wise and
RH> profound. But I am confident you cannot establish its truth. 

I cannot. And it is not very Buddhist. It is part of the obsession
with the self, warned by Buddha. Although also I'm confident that you
cannot establish the truth of the impossibility of the overcoming of
suffering. 


best regards,