[Buddha-l] Dumbo's feather Re:Buddhism and psychoactive substances

[Stefan Detrez]

Salut Joy!

2006/10/4, Joy Vriens <joy.vriens at nerim.net>:
>
>
> >Would you claim that the knowledge (if any) they gained through those
> >experiences in not genuine because it's chemically induced?
>
> How can knowledge, the simple fact of knowing something give satisfaction?
> What exactly would this "knowledge" *satisfy*? Belief? Intention? Perfectly
> falling together to a fit, Halleluya! Can we prove all this goes beyond a
> closed circuit of suggestion and self sugestion?


How can knowledge give satisfaction? Well, if you read the explanation of
right view, you'll find this:

"And what is right view? Knowledge with regard to
stress<http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca1/index.html>,
knowledge with regard to the origination of
stress<http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca2/index.html>,
knowledge with regard to the cessation of
stress<http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca3/index.html>,
knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the cessation of
stress <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/index.html>:
This is called right view."

(taken from
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-ditthi/index.html
)

My opinion is that knowledge itself is non-active wisdom. It takes however
know-how, some kind of modus vivendi, to turn this knowledge in wisdom.
Knowledge itself doesn't give satisfaction, one has to do something with it.
Whether this knowledge has come from some kind of self suggestion is, in the
spiritual sphere, of no importance. Its quality remains the same (although
not all experiences have the same spiritual quality, whatever that is). The
result is that it changes one's view on things. Remember, the Buddha might
not have been a drug user after he left his 'palace', but sitting as the
Buddha for three days and three nights under the Bodhi tree (a type of
ascetism, read voluntary exhaustion) will have many gain all sort of
insights. My feeling would be that neurotransmitters respond to different
types of external experiences. Self suggestion can help one survive for that
matter.

>What makes the quality of experiences coming from drug use (albeit
> >ritualized and 'normalized' in particular social contexts) different from
> >the quality of experiences coming from sensoric deprivation (exhaustion,
> >tiredness, hunger, thirst, darkness, excessive light, excessive
> quietness,
> >....), all of which are the result of the seeker's time and energy
> consuming
> >quest for spiritual experiences?
>
> Yes exactly. Or e.g. the simple fact of living in an all male environment
> (if one is a male). What does that do to one's hormonal, perhormonal etc.
> balance and what effects can that have on our thoughts, feelings, emotions
> etc. ?


It will surely have effects on thoughts, feelings, emotions and so forth.
That's the point. Whether the effects are from the outside (the cold, LSD,
thirst, illness or peyote), the inside or both, the brain constitution
responds in such ways to keep consistency in the experience of inner or
outer realities. Of course, knowing that you hallucinate because of
exhaustion or 'knowing' that, under the physical and mental effects of
dehydratation, an angel will send water soon are both instances of
'knowledge'. Yet what one does with those knowledges is a different thing.
The first one may want to take action against the effects of exhaustion,
while the other one may sit passively for an angel to come and quench a
thirst.

Stefan
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