[Buddha-l] Was Buddha a Buddhist

[Blumenthal, James]

Curt,
Usually when the term "exclusivism" is used it refers to religious traditions which claim to have an exclusive hold on the truth and the means to salvation as most evangelical Christians believe ("take Jesus as your personal savior or go to hell".  Clearly neither Buddhist nor Hindu traditions are exclusivist in this way.  The question of whether they are exclusive of one another is another question and quite a bit more complicated, an excellent point which your question highlights.  We only need to look at Newari Buddhism in the Kathmandu Valley (or most any form of Buddhism) to see a perfect example of the blurriness of the line Westerners like to draw between traditions. Many Newars follow both Buddhist traditions and worship Hindu gods at their respective temples. Perhaps the issue comes to a question of whether we are investigating doctrine or popular practice.  And then there are those who identify with another religion like Judaism or Christianity, but engage in Buddhist contemplative practices as well and benefit from them.  Does that make them Christian and Buddhist?  If one is nominally Buddhist on the basis of taking spiritual refuge in the Three Jewels, then probably not. Except in the most liberal sense, I do not see how somebody can both seek salvation through Jesus and take their spiritual refuge in the three Jewels. But it is certainly a grey area and an interesting topic of conversation.
Jim Blumenthal


James Blumenthal
Dept. of Philosophy
Oregon State University
102-A Hovland Hall
Corvallis, OR 97213


-----Original Message-----
From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com on behalf of curt
Sent: Wed 5/24/2006 11:00 AM
To: Buddhist discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Was Buddha a Buddhist
 
Is there clear, or even suggestive, evidence to support the idea that 
"Buddhism" and "Hinduism" are mutually exclusive? "Exclusivism" is not a 
feature of religions in general (although it is a feature of certain 
religions) - and it is specifically not a feature of Buddhism - at least 
in practice. I also think a strong case can be made that it is not a 
general feature of Hinduism. If neither Buddhism nor Hinduism are 
exclusive in general - is there reason form assuming that they are 
specifically exclusive of each other?
- Curt

Franz Metcalf wrote:
> Gang,
>
> I think nearly the whole field of the history of religion stands with 
> Jim Blumenthal in thinking Siddhartha Gautama's relationship to 
> Hinduism--at least in the last half of his life--is quite different 
> than Jesus of Nazareth's relationship to Judaism. (The theological 
> question of whether they are "Buddhists" or "Christians" is quite 
> another matter.)
>
> I'm not sure I'd say it was doctrinal matters (such as anatman) that 
> separate Buddha from the general run of the sramana movement, though. 
> The movement, as far as I know or guess, was really only united by one 
> thing: being sramanas rather than householders. There was a huge range 
> of ideas represented in it, including radical materialism. Still, I 
> agree that the Buddha's ideas were pretty "out there." What I'd add to 
> this, what I personally think was exceptional in his sangha, was his 
> emphasis on the middle way. Where almost *all* sramanas had tapas, 
> asceticism, as their raison d'etre, and gained their status that way, 
> the Buddha and his sangha explicitly rejected this approach. This and 
> their acceptance of non-Brahmin members--and, later, women--set them 
> quite apart from other groups and on the road to being--too at last 
> return to the subject of this thread--"Buddhist," not "Hindu."
>
> That's what I think, anyway, though I'm far from a scholar on this 
> subject.
>
> Franz
>
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