[Buddha-l] Was Buddha a Buddhist

[Blumenthal, James]

Hi Joel,
When I said that he was radical even in the context of the sramana movement, I was thinking primarily of the doctrines of anatman and impermanence.  While many sramanas were focussing their practices on realizing their true atman in order to find some union with Brahman, the unchanging ultimate reality, the Buddha taught that such an atman does not exist, nor does an unchanging Brahman.  I think Mahavira was also quite radical at that time.  Perhaps that is part of the reason the paths that these two figures taught persisted when most faded away.
Jim
P.S.  I think that the Buddha's  "middle way" approach to asceticism was also probably quite radical at the time when many sramanas were practicing pretty extreme forms of asceticsim.


-----Original Message-----
From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com on behalf of J Tatelman
Sent: Tue 5/23/2006 4:42 AM
To: Buddhist discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Was Buddha a Buddhist
 
Jim,

Very good points! But what have you in mind when you write that the 
Buddha was radical "even in the context of the sramana movement"? What 
about Mahavira, for example?

Joel.

On May 23, 2006, at 12:37 AM, Blumenthal, James wrote:

> I think the question of the Buddha being Buddhist is entirely 
> different from the question of Jesus being Christian.  Jesus was a 
> Jew.  In fact, he was a Rabbi.  He never left the faith.  He never 
> spoke of starting  a new religion.  Certainly he was critical of 
> certain elements of the Jewish power elite, but that does not mean he 
> was intending to start a new religion.  Christianity and the theology 
> of a messiah dying for the sins of humanity was a creation of the 
> early community of Jesus' followers in the first century after his 
> death.
>
>  As for the Buddha being a Buddhist, I think the question is sort of 
> irrelavent from a Buddhist perspective. We can't really make the 
> determination based on refuge, because once one is a Buddha, there is 
> no need for refuge.  Refuge is taken *until* one achieves Buddhahood.  
> Unlike Jesus, the Buddha was introducing a new spiritual path. He was 
> heterodoxical not only in the face of Vedic Brahminism, but even in 
> the context of the sramana movement, his worldview and approach was 
> quite radical.
>  Jim Blumenthal
>

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