[Buddha-l] Re: The Buddha, an 'emotional weakling'? What are the "joys of living"?

[Bob Zeuschner]

Although I do not know anything about John Hosper's religious beliefs, I 
do know that he is a well-respected philosopher who specializes in 
ethical issues.
I do not share his view of the Stoics, but I feel that an argument can 
be made to defend Hosper's view.

Benito Carral wrote:

>    I  would  like  to  know what John understans by the
> "joy  of  living." 

I think this is exactly the right question to ask.


  I  would  tend  to think that he is
> referring  to  all  that  klesa-oriented  entertainment
> aimend to anesthetize ourselves, the kind of "joy" that
> makes  antidepressives  drugs  one  of  the  best  sold
> medicaments,  that  destroys one of two marriages, that
> makes  ours  an  individualist and consumerist society,
> that   makes   pornography   and  prostitution  a  most
> profitable  business,  that is destroying the Earth and
> letting a lof of people die everyday without a thought,
> that makes individuals feel alone and with empty lives.


I respectfully submit that this is a straw-man argument.
The early Buddhism of the historical Buddha seems primarily directed at 
forest-dwellers.

Let me present another possible explanation for "joy of living" that is 
NOT encouraged by the historical Buddha (perhaps even discouraged).

The joy of living can include holding hands with a lady while watching a 
beautiful sunset over the ocean/beach -- I suspect the Buddha would have 
rejected this.
The joy of living can include playing a musical instrument, singing, 
dancing, and even reading fiction. I suspect that all of these would 
have been rejected in early Buddhism.
I have played an acoustic guitar for over 50 years, and it has given me 
immense amounts of happiness. I don't think it would be encouraged by 
early Buddhism.
I would also argue that the joy of living includes sexual pleasures, 
sexual enjoyment, sexual sharing, and although these can produce great 
dukkha, they can also produce much joy.
How about the joy of participating in sports?
How about the joy of cooking and enjoying the flavors of foods? How 
about the pleasure that comes from a bottle of good wine that enhances 
the food?

My understanding is that the early Buddhists would seek for joy in the 
Buddha, the dharma, and the sangha.

This Buddhist world-view may well eliminate many of the "joys of living."

Bob Zeuschner
Dept. of Philosophy