[Buddha-l] rebirth

[Stefan Detrez]

2006/2/1, Joy Vriens <joy.vriens at nerim.net>:
>
> Stefan Detrez wrote:
>
> > Maybe WE understand the teaching to be separate from  a world of devas,
> > because it would suit our secularist predispositions, but the Buddha
> > could have intended otherwise.
> > In a mutlitude of suttas we meet the Buddha in dialogues with
> > 'transcendent beings', virtually claiming victory over them in every
> > debate.
>
> He had to. How can one beat the arguments of an opponent that isn't
> there or that doesn't manifest himself? The appeal of a rebirth in the
> world of the gods was one of the things the Buddha had to fight against.
> Even amongst his own monks, see Nanda. So how could he diminish that
> appeal? By spinning it, by making it lesser in comparison to the fruit
> of full enlightenment. And it would be even better when the gods
> themselves ("been there, done that") endorsed the superiority of the
> Buddha's awakening over their own status. Robert reminded us of
> Vasubandhu saying:
> 'The Aryans make of existence in the most sublime heaven (bhavaagra) an
> idea
> more painful than do fools make of existence in the most dreadful hell'.
> Which suggests they knew how to spin.


One possible reason for the Buddha to retain the 'belief' in rebirth is 1)
to have some incentive for moral behaviour, and 2) for the teaching not to
resemble nihilist philosophies like the lokayata or carvaka. But basically
one can assume that belief in rebirth was taken for granted, so in this
sense the Buddha had more affinity with Brahmanism, then with
countercultural ascetics who did otherwise. Maybe a close tie between
khattiyas and brahmins is suggested by this affinity.
If you ask me, the references to rebirth are scarce and the content of its
discussion is often vague in the suttas.

Stefan
.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20060201/8ed58837/attachment.html