[Buddha-l] Mere meness

[[DPD Web] Shen Shi'an]

http://www.moonpointer.com/index.php?itemid=63 :
A somewhat entertaining instance of a poem with sutta-ish recursive
formatting? 
 

________________________________

From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com
[mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Piya Tan
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:43 PM
To: Buddhist discussion forum
Cc: Pali at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Buddha-l] Mere meness

Which reminds me of a very interesting aspect of the Suttas that I have
not mentioned here before. Anyone with a good knowledge (even some
knowledge) of computer programming (ask the experts which ones), will
see that their are interesting patterns in the way the Suttas are orally
transmitted. 

There are recursive patterns, nested passages (and stories),
concatenations of ideas, doctrinal cycles, etc. 

I find that there are two kinds of repetitions (peyyaala): one is purely
incidental or factual (other than Dharma), and the other Dharma, esp
when a teaching is given in detail about say the five aggregates or any
other doctrinal sets (esp one of the "7 Sets").  The best effect is to
"listen" to these passages in full (record them on mp3 and listen, for
example: they are for reflection. 

Reading can bore a person who has only an academic interest in the
Buddhism. For the mindfulness practitioner, listening to the Dharma in
this way gives a remarkable sense of peace and growing insight.

I'm glad to see that we actually have sections of the Access to Insight
website, for example, that have "audio Dharma" where you hear famous
living Buddhist names read selected texts. It would be great to hear
Dayamati's voice for one of such readings! 

The Dharma is meant to be heard, not read (originally anyway). 

Piya




On 8/30/06, Joy Vriens < joy.vriens at nerim.net
<mailto:joy.vriens at nerim.net> > wrote: 

	Hi Piya Tan,

	 

		"Mere Buddhism then would also be "early Buddhism" (in
the sense of that of the Buddha's own time and say about a century after
that), or pre-sectarian Buddhism. We have enough record of such
teachings to live by. " 
		
		
		***I have my doubts and intuitions about our knowledge
of "early Buddhism", or at least that which is generally presented as
such, but I am convinced that the teachings going under the header
"early Buddhism" are good teachings to live by.

	
	 
	 
	"I have just an article by Ajahn Brahmali (a pupil of Ajahn
Chah) about Samadhi and Lokuttarajjhana, where he commented something
like we should take the Suttas as they are: let the Suttas interpret
themselves, and not use the Commentaries to do that. (Of course, purists
may say that we are treating the early texts like evangelists the
Bible). Let's simply answer that we are not evangelists."
	 
	 
	***Yes, I find that an excellent approach too. I have been
taught too many nutshell summaries of what was the actual message of
this philosopher and that religious teacher, that kept me from actually
directly plunging in their sayings and writings. After having done so
(the plunging that is) for a couple of them, I got a totally different
experience and idea of them. I think that going for a core message and
then to define thinkers/seekers by that reducing them to a couple of
core quotations is a mistake anyway. By going for core messages, one
often misses the best parts. To read a "writer" (by lack of a better
generalist term) is to travel along with him/her, letting oneself being
mesmerized by him/her for a start. First surrender to it, then use your
critical thinking if you have to. A bit like with story telling. Can one
enjoy a story and get the essence of a story (and I don't mean the
morality etc., but the pleasure) when one's critical thinking is
activated? 
	
	
	"Mere Buddhism also refers in a very significant way to mindful
training. "Traditional orghnized Buddhism" I think has it the wrong way:
study the texts then you will understand what meditation is about".. 
	
	
	***The reality is I think mindfulness training (having learned
the basics form an experienced and compassionate practitioner) helps one
understand the texts and traditions better. More important than that, it
bring a profound mental calm and clarity."
	 
	In order to do something specific, we need a story/narration to
motivate us to do so, we have to hypnotise ourselves into it. When we
adhere to a story, we are already calmer and clearer. I don't know about
its profundity though, I wouldn't know how to measure it ;-) Then
whatever we believe we need to do to make us calmer and clearer will
indeed make us calmer and clearer.   
	

	"Otherwise we would mostly be merely dumplng our own mental
garbage in this anarchy called the internet (or Buddha-L)." 
	 
	***As you may have already noticed ;-) I have found that in the
mental domain, anarchy tends to be what really happens. A continuous
afflux of various information and disinformation. I have learned to make
it more or less manageable for me through filtering, but I am afraid the
filtering (and therefore the impression of calm this produces) is less
real than the anarchy.
	 
	Joy

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