[Buddha-l] Re: H.H. The Dalai Lama vs Geshe Michael Roach

[Piya Tan]

Friends in Dharma,

There are a number of instructive papers on this matter, esp

Katy Butler, "Encountering the shadow in Buddhist America"
in Meeting the Shadows, ed Jeremiah Abrams & Connie Zweig, 1991.

Looks like the ghosts of Chogyam Trungpa and co are still around in the
antarabhava occasionally incarnating in our midst.

It would also be interesting to see what happens to the WBO/FWBO when
Sangharakshita dies. It would be likely that the scholars who are current
Orders Members would be able to more freely write authoritatively about
cults, though I think those days are somewhat over for the F/WBO since many
of the members are beginning to think for themselves and are connecting up
with mainstream Buddhism, esp the forest monks. Such first hand writings
will surely prove beneficial in the study of the psychology of religion.

There was a time when I thought Sangharakshita was right about needing a new
approach (or "new society") in the West and westernized communities. When
Ajahn Chah and Ajahn Sumedho arrived in Britain (this is now history), I
think the Dharma sun has risen and is shining again.  The old "iron horse"
of Padmasambhava of Orgyen badly needs a full overhaul.

The main point is whether those who take to the monastic robes can keep to
those ancient rules, bending them if necessary, but never breaking them.
Ajahn Jagaro, abbot of the Perth monastery before Ajahn Brahmavamso, was
honorable enough to leave the Order to marry a wonderful Thai lady who
nursed him when he was ill.

If we are to believe the Suttas, the likes of Roach who still delight in
sense-pleasures despite his "training," shows that he has not known any
pleasure higher than sense-pleasure. Surely someone who has tasted dhyana or
higher would let go of lesser pleasures that bring such high costs--and all
that public laundry.

One of the reasons we have to keep the precepts is out of compassion for the
suffering others who are seeking the way, and so that those approaching it
do not lose faith. Otherwise the shadow is darkest where the light seems
brightest, and we are blinded by our own light.

Well, at least these "monastics" are not molesting thousands of little
children in the shadows of Pope Alexander "Medici".

May we grow as lotuses in the mud heading for the sunshine.

Piya Tan

On 8/19/06, Benito Carral <bcarral at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear and deeply respected friend,
>
> > So  I  think  these cases of discipline vows are also
> > close related with a more clear delimitation of these
> > borders. Because in fact, that man wants to be a monk
> > living a lay life, and he thinks that's possible, and
> > also  some  people  around  him  seems  to be able of
> > believing that.
>
>    I  think  that  there  is  something important to be
> remembered  here.  Buddhist wows are not imposed, i.e.,
> one takes them as he wishes.
>
>    It's true that my practice has led me to cherish the
> precepts,  but  it's  not  that someone has asked me to
> follow  them,  it's  that my "wisdom" asks me to try to
> live  by  them  because  I understand that they are the
> right  thing  to  do--and I fail sometimes, more than I
> wished.
>
>    And  yes,  I think that it's possible to live a life
> ruled  by  semi-monastic Buddhist precepts in the midst
> of  a  lay  society.  But I ask my students to do their
> best  but not to be too hard with themselves or others,
> but  understanding  (except in case of abuse, verbal or
> otherwise).  I  only  ask them to follow the five basic
> precepts,  and  then,  if  they  want  more compromise,
> they're welcome. In fact, this week I talked them about
> master  Hakuin  and his love for sake and tobacco, just
> to  illustrate  the  real  life  of  a  real  great Zen
> master--not  everyone can be as venerable master Xuyun,
> although I think that it would be most desirable).
>
>    Then, although I'm a layman living in a lay society,
> I  don't  consider  myself part of such a semi-society,
> but  a  Buddha's  son--quite  imperfect  as  I'm.  This
> society  is  deeply  sick,  and  I  can't  think of any
> intelligent  human  being  wanting  to be part of if or
> follow  its  ways.  Then,  although it's quite probable
> that  I  will  end  my  life  as  a Chan monk in a Chan
> monastery,  I think that our shared society needs a lot
> of semi-monastic people walking down their streets.
>
>    But this is the wisdom of a fool, you know.
>
>    Best wishes,
>
>    B
>
> P.  S. About Michael Roach, laying about one's level of
> realization    is   considered   one   of   the   worst
> transgressions  of  the precepts, and for good reasons.
> He  can  live  as he wants, but I think that it's not a
> goot  idea  to  claim  the  eight bodhisattva level for
> himself.   But,   who  knows,  maybe  it  was  just  an
> unfortunate joke.
>
>
>
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