[Buddha-l] on eating meat

[Laura Castell]

At 10:04 AM 17/10/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>Message: 6
>Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:49:33 +0100
>From: "Stephen Hodge" <s.hodge at padmacholing.freeserve.co.uk>
>Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: Buddhist pacifism
>To: "Buddhist discussion forum" <buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com>
>Message-ID: <000601c5d32a$0f57d9f0$d0614e51 at zen>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>         reply-type=response
>
>Mike Austin wrote:
>
> > If one buys meat, it is the intention and action of the butcher etc. that
> > determines if he kills. No order is given. Such an order would be just an
> > imputation from the butcher's side.
>
>Mike, I think you need a reality check -- you obviously do not understand
>the dynamics of the modern meat trade or just don't want to know about it
>for some reason.
>
>Your stance is based on the Buddha's stipulations which applied to a totally
>different social situation.  His advice was given to a small group of monks,
>the newly founded sangha, reliant upon alms from the general population, at
>a time when meat production was small-scale and involved considerably less
>suffering, numerically and qualitatively.  Find out about present-day meat
>production and then ask yourself if you think the Buddha would have
>permitted any meat-eating if he were alive today.
>
>The situation now is totally different.  Meat production is geared to the
>consumer -- without the demand would so many animals be slaughtered ?   An
>animal might not be killed for you as "Mike Austin" but it is killed for you
>"the consumer".  As a consumer you are causing others to kill for you.  It's
>that simple.
>
>Do you even know how many animals are murdered each year for human
>consumption ?  In the US alone, over 9.4 billion animals per annun (2.5
>million per day) !   The numbers in Europe are proportionately similiar.
>How does that sit with your professed Mahayana belief in compassion ?   This
>is even before we recognize that many animals are not even stunned properly
>before they are butchered -- at times they are skinned, gutted and butchered
>while fully conscious due to the pressures of production.   Remember also
>that these animals have been bred and raised solely for one purpose -- to be
>killed and eaten by humans.   You the consumer creates this demand,
>therefore you are responsible in part.  When you buy meat, do you look at
>the price and buy "value for money" ?   If so, you are causing animals even
>more suffering because  cost saving comes at a heavy price to them.
>
>I suggest you do a couple of things quickly.  Get the book that Joanna
>mentioned recently by Charles Patterson, "Eternal Treblinka", or similar,
>and also have a look at some of the videos of slaughter-houses in action --
>have a bucket close to hand because you will probably want to vomit.  If you
>can't get hold of any of these videos, I might possibly be able to arrange
>for somebody to send something to you.   Have a video evening and invite
>your local friendly lamas around to watch, since they need educating too.
>I'll even send you my copy of Patterson's book although it is inexpensive
>and easily available even here in the UK.
>
>This is also very relevent to the title of this thread -- read Patterson and
>you will understand.
>
>Best wishes,
>Stephen Hodge


I've been following this thread with attention because I think we (people) 
tend to live with many contradictions between what we do and what we 'pray' 
or think is correct, often not being aware of these contradictions, and the 
case of eating meat is usually one.  I think it is basically the same 
attitude that drives us to use air conditioning, waste water, produce lots 
of waste, etc etc.  But the point I want to make in this message is that I 
read in one of the many books by The Dalai Lama that he eats meat once a 
week for health reasons.  At least in the interview there was no mention of 
killing the animal in a special way or anything like that. It made me 
wonder though.  Should I assume that someone like The Dalai Lama would 
(obviously) take that into consideration or am I being idealistic? 
Sometimes I think I expect perfection from people who practice Buddhism, 
but they are people like us (in other words, full of imperfections!) and 
are in the road of learning, aren't they?
Best wishes, Laura