[Buddha-l] Re: Greetings from Oviedo

[Chan Fu]

On 10/3/05, Joy Vriens <joy.vriens at nerim.net> wrote:
> Chan Fu wrote:
>
> > One *is* one's environment, IMO. You really can't take
> > (or universalize) yourself out of it.
>
> How come you're not disenchanted then?

'Cause it's all so enchanting, of course! :-)

Humanity has been through many hard times and
survived. Perhaps it's because the universe just laughs at
that great big MYSELF and keeps going. I'm sure if we
(or it) managed to erase humanity, it would reinvent us.
Maybe with cute fuzzy ears.

> > Buddha-wise, you can
> > subtract everything but 'just being' and that's very relaxing
> > and all, but it's just another mind trick - it's only another
> > way of fooling yourself.
>
> Yes like the bodhisattva career and the tantras in which the divinity is
> woken up from its deep concentration and summoned to act.
>
> > I tiptoed around the old folk's advice about letting
> > go of 'emptiness' for a long time before it came on like
> > the very first joke.
>
> Isn't it all jokes and tricks?

"Madder than a box of frogs"  may, in fact, be my most
favorite colloquilism of all time.

> >>I personally manage to find beauty and fullfillment in some intellectual
> >>constructs too and find it hard to get by without them. But there is
> >>more peace (dare I say opiate?)  if one doesn't indulge in them.
>
> > Perhaps one's free to indulge. It's like going swimming.
> > If you make the mistake of wishing to be a fish, you may
> > wind up hooked.
>
> Oh, but I am hooked up. I have discovered that I am even when I think I
> am not.

That doesn't seem to be something to agonize over. I'm hooked
on playing bridge, on my children and grandchildren, on music -
hell, I'm hooked on everything. What I meant was not being able
to accept where you are (the past/future thingie).

> > Maybe the development that you speak of is only the opportunity
> > to use our minds and appreciate the beauty of being. Maybe
> > "spiritual" refers just to our beautiful (and lately evolved/discovered)
> > minds. But you're in a better cultural ecology for that. Candles
> > are flickering here, for lack of air.
>
> Yes beauty and mind are definitely connected. No beauty without mind.
>
> > But don't dismay. The pendulum has swung before. We just weren't
> > riding on it at the time.
>
> If you are referring to a sort of the times they're a-changing feeling,
> it's quite an impressive thing to witness. I was born in a time of newly
> found hope, freedom, tolerance, intrepidity and I thought perhaps
> humankind had managed to come out of troubled times and was perhaps
> indeed evolving. Progress did exist. Seeing it swinging back like it
> does in the current speed is very scary. But it is a great lesson.

Yes, that. I was born at the beginning of WWII
so I've been on it for a few swings now...;)
It'll be interesting to see if it doesn't fall clean off the clock
this time. The situation here is ummm...not nearly as bad as
it could be. Progress is still happening - China and India are
working on it while the USA restacks its bibles.

> > ~2500 years ago seems to have marked a point in this evolution
> > of reflection where it was rediscovered that thought (the
> > ability to think as we do) could cause a great deal of suffering
> > (mental pain). We're still learning, but our "spirituality" -  our
> > creativity and capacity of mind - is surely evolving in a beautiful way.
>
> How do you manage, if we are our environment?

Careful attention to ecological balance?

> > So, as the old mind-numbing, regressive, buddhism dies off and
> > is replaced by just learning how to be what we are, perhaps
> > we'll get lucky and we'll create even more beautiful things rather
> > than going back to square one. We may even learn how to use
> > this big wad of bubblegum in our heads before we screw it all up.
>
> Sounds great, but you are not going into the direction the pendulum is
> swinging in. :-)

On Mondays, Grandma used to say, "Swim against the stream",
On Fridays she'd say, "Go with the flow."  I was so confused
when I was a kid that I just stuck with Wednesday.

> Joy (perfectly pure ethics)

:-) always