[Buddha-l] Questions on the vidyas, music in Buddhism, etc.

[jkirk]

I occasionally still pursue an interest in music in early Buddhism......it's 
deplored in the Pali canon, as far as I can tell, but exalted in Mahayana 
sutras as a worthy means of praising the Buddha and dharma. One Chinese 
website I've found (BLIA --Hsing Yun organization) makes claims for music 
going back to the Rg Veda: "Buddhist style music recognizes its origin in 
India from 1500 to 2000 B.C.E. It came from the Sama Veda of the Rg-veda, 
sacred texts, thus providing the roots of Sabdavidya(3) and fan-bei." 
(fan-bei is Chinese Buddhist musical performance, but I have never heard it 
so cannot say more here).
(3) One of the five logics in India, referring to written languages, rhyme 
and linguistics.

On sabdavidya, I found: In ancient Indian Buddhism, there was the well known 
five courses of study (vidyas), which includes sabdavidya (linguistic, 
phonology, literary studies, and music), silpasthanavidya (science 
technology, arts, and crafts) cikitsadvidya (medicine and public health), 
hetuvidya (logic and reasoning), and adhyatmavidya (inner science, 
metaphysics, and psychology).
    Several websites indicate that sabdavidya is an important study in 
Tibetan Buddhism.

My first question: is sabdavidya one of the five original vidyas, or a 
branch of one of them? In the original Sanskrit texts, is music discussed as 
part of this topic?
Note that music is included in the above explanation of subdavidya. Is this 
accurate, (Richard? anyone else on Indian philosophy?)--or has it been 
inferred from the original text by later Mahayana practitioners of the 
vidyas?

Also, a second question: it's my impression that the terms "music" and 
"chanting" are conflated in much Buddhistic discourse. Would the experts 
here agree?
E.G.-- Mahayana sutras are cited as indicating that the Buddha praised 
certain monks for their fine voices and chanting. From BLIA
http://www.blia.org/english/  : "In the Avatamsaka-sutra, it mentions that 
Buddhist music is also a means of promoting the Dharma. The Buddha once made 
use of poetic chants and gathas to teach about Bhutatathata and the 
universal truth of human life. This was a means of easy comprehension so his 
disciples could memorize and recite them. Bhiksu Patha was among the best 
contemporary singers during the Buddha's time."
Here I find "poetic chants and gathas" conflated with music.

Further from BLIA:
"In the Saddharna Pundarika Sutra [Lotus Sutra], it mentions that the Buddha 
had said, "to sing in praise of the Buddha's moral integrity with a joyful 
mind is also the path to Buddhahood." In the Ten Chanting Vinaya, the Buddha 
complimented Bhiksu Bhadra, "Hearing what you sing, five benefits are 
attained: there is no physical or mental fatigue, what has been memorized 
will never be forgotten, the voice will not deteriorate and the verses are 
easily comprehended." So, we can see that Buddhist music not only promotes 
spiritual sentiment and purifies the mind, it also generates the importance 
of benefiting others."

Further:
"As mentioned in the Damamukl Nidana Sutra: King Prasenajit of Sravasti 
assembled his army with the intention of attacking Angulimaliya. On his way 
to Djeta, he met a very ugly monk with an extremely unusual voice. When he 
spoke, he could raise his voice to a very high tone, but the voice was quite 
gentle and pleasant. All the soldiers and horses stopped moving, pricking up 
their ears to listen enthusiastically to the sounds...."

[What is this Damamukl Nidana Sutra? I cannot find it....]

Further:  (also on BLIA)
Around the 2nd century CE, Asvaghosa Bodhisattva established the path in 
India for promoting the Dharma through Buddhist Music. His incomparable 
wisdom, eloquence and proficiency in creating music, poetry and drama opened 
up a new chapter for Buddhist music.

Playing on his stringed instrument, and singing with great feelings, one day 
in front of the royal city, Asvaghosa attracted a big crowd. The following 
day, a great number of youth gathered at the Kusumapura Buddhist temple 
asking to be ordained. ...Asvaghosa Bodhisattva had a natural ability for 
blending Buddha-dharma with music which could be understood and appreciated 
by people from all walks of life. He had written about the Buddha in the 
Praise to the Buddha's Deeds, as a way of using music to explain the 
Buddha's life. This music became very popular and was heard in the palace as 
well as on the street.

Asvaghosa was later than the monks Stephen Hodge referred to a while back as 
early wandering forest dwelling monks, whose doctrines might have differed 
from what's in the Pali canon today. He wrote: "There is evidence that some 
of the early Mahayana sutras, such as the Pure Land sutras, were indeed 
composed by wanderers or forest-dwellers" (list email dated March 22, 2005).

So, Stephen, is there any evidence that praise for music or chanting as 
music (I have no idea what Sanskrit term from sabdavidya, e.g., has been 
glossed as "music") also arose at this stage in the development of Mahayana? 
Or any other evidence that indicates an early as opposed to later (after the 
Buddha dharma appears in Central Asia, gets to China, and/or reached Tibet) 
appearance of praise (instead of abjection) for music?

Music in ancient India, Brahmanical or otherwise --natya shilpa-- was not 
music per se as we understand it today--it was performed narrative, poetry, 
singing, and dance. I'd expect to find it as a performance art among the 
vidyas under shilpasthanavidya. So the glossing of whatever terms are 
relevant in Mahayana texts as "music" strikes me as peculiar.

Perhaps all that has happened is that Chinese and or Tibetan organizations 
of today are simply labeling chanting-with-accompanying-orchestraton as 
music.

Hoping to hear from the experts on these issues.......apologies if all this 
is confused.
Best wishes
Joanna