From ugg-5 at spro.net Sat Aug 10 16:29:40 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 16:29:40 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Sadly, the beat goes on in Sri Lanka Message-ID: <003001ce9619$1b7a1ee0$526e5ca0$@spro.net> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21840600 The hardline Buddhist s targeting Sri Lanka's Muslims http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23653213 Sri Lanka Buddhist mob attacks Colombo mosque On the other side: Eid al-Fitr bomb attacks kill dozens: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23651828 More evidence of how uninterested in political/human/ everyday peace many religionists are. The non-reactionary believers in these instances could act to overcome these kinds of fanaticism, but these fanatics have support from governments. Thus it's as difficult for them to do anything as it seems to us to do anything about the Patriot Act! Joanna K. From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Sat Aug 10 17:41:12 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 19:41:12 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Sadly, the beat goes on in Sri Lanka References: <003001ce9619$1b7a1ee0$526e5ca0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <8B39DE25B0254C0593CF4C6BD26AD32B@Dan> Curious that you compare chanting and occasional fistfights to incessant bombings. No comparison. Compared to what is going on currently in the Sinai -- Christians fleeing from harrassment by the Brotherhood and its supporters -- Sri Lanka is docile. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/world/middleeast/lawless-sinai-shows-risks-rising-in-fractured-egypt.html?hp The BBC, which lives on Saudi money, is hardly the objective witness in Sri Lanka. Citing a nationalist monk, the reporter introduces the quote thus: -- He proceeds to give a unique take on geography and religion. "Look around the world - Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan and others, they were all Buddhist countries - but the Muslims destroyed the culture and then took over the country. We worry they're planning it here too." -- "Unique" is a backhanded way of saying imaginary. But no one on this list at least should imagine that there is anything "unique" about that capsule history. It's 100% accurate, sadly. That the reporter and his ilk are ignorant of that, obviously more interested in scoring PC points, is also sad. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo" > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21840600 > The hardline Buddhist s targeting Sri Lanka's Muslims > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23653213 > Sri Lanka Buddhist mob attacks Colombo mosque > > On the other side: Eid al-Fitr bomb attacks kill dozens: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23651828 From ugg-5 at spro.net Tue Aug 13 09:53:05 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:53:05 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Post-doc position in Leiden: Buddhism and Social Justice Message-ID: <005f01ce983d$336977a0$9a3c66e0$@spro.net> Apologies for cross-posting: Perhaps someone on this list might want to apply. Joanna --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://werkenbij.leidenuniv.nl/vacatures/wetenschappelijke-functies/13-249-postdoc-position-in-the-nwo-project-buddhism-and-social-justice.html Post-Doctoral Fellow Position in the NWO project Buddhism and Social Justice The Faculty of Humanities, vacancy 13-249 The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (LIAS) of the Faculty of Humanities at Leiden University invites applications for a One Year full-time position (Post-doctoral Fellow) in the field of Buddhist Studies, to begin as soon as possible. One Year Post-Doctoral Fellow Position in the NWO Project Buddhism and Social Justice (1.0 fte) Vacancy number: 13-249 Since its foundation in 1575, Leiden University, with around 17,000 students and 4,000 staff, has built an internationally recognized record of excellence in teaching and research. The Faculty of Humanities consists of the Institutes for Area Studies, Creative & Performing Arts, Cultural Disciplines, History, Linguistics, Philosophy, and Religious Studies. It has about 4,500 students and 900 staff from around the world. The faculty offers about 30 BA and 45 MA programs. The Graduate School has an annual output of about 50 PhDs. The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/), which comprises the Schools of Asian Studies and Middle Eastern Studies, is committed to the integration of disciplinary and regional-historical perspectives, and has as its aim the advancement of teaching and research of Area Studies at Leiden University and in the wider academic community. Area specializations in Asian Studies include Chinese, Japanese, Korean, South- & Southeast Asian, and Tibetan Studies. Duties and responsibilities We seek a Post-Doctoral Fellow with excellent qualifications to work in the NWO Project Buddhism and Social Justice. Specialization is open, but the applicant should focus her/his work on the general subject area of the project. The project is ongoing (see http://www.BuddhismAndSocialJustice.com), with the One Year vacancy made possible by the departure of a present Post-doc fellow for a tenured appointment elsewhere. Applicants should have a demonstrably excellent academic track record in Buddhist Studies, and hold a PhD in Buddhist Studies or a related field, or its equivalent. They should have an excellent command of English and be prepared to present their research results in English. Within the one year time frame, the successful candidate should engage in research, prepare at least one article for publication, and participate in the project?s upcoming international conference. What we offer The position is for one year with a full-time appointment. The salary is determined in accordance with the current scales as set out in the collective labour agreement for the Dutch universities (CAO): min. ? 2.427, max. ? 3.491, with additional holiday and end-of-year bonuses. Candidates from outside the Netherlands may be eligible for a substantial tax break. Further information For more information about the position please contact Prof. dr. J.A Silk, tel. +31-71-527-2510, email j.a.silk at hum.leidenuniv.nl . Please note that applications should not be sent directly to Prof. Silk. How to apply Candidates please send your application (in English), including: ? a cover letter stating your motivation for this position, and proposed project ? a CV, ? copies of your academic transcripts, ? a copy of your PhD thesis and other relevant publications, ? the names and contact information for three referees. These items should preferably be submitted in a single PDF document called ?Family Name-Given Name-13-249.? Review of applications will commence immediately and continue until the position is filled or this call is closed. Please send your application electronically, indicating the vacancy number to: vacatureslias at hum.leidenuniv.nl All application materials should be sent in pdf format. If it is not possible for you to submit an electronic application, you may mail your materials, citing the vacancy number, to: M. van Asperen Leiden University P&O FGW PO Box 9515 2300 RA Leiden The Netherlands A telephone (or Skype) interview may be part of the selection procedure. -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html From ugg-5 at spro.net Wed Aug 14 10:40:38 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:40:38 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] =?utf-8?b?Rlc6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gZ2FqYWfEgW1pbsSrIGFuZCBv?= =?utf-8?q?ther_elephant_similes_in_early_k=C4=81vya?= In-Reply-To: <63D420D7-29AD-4C65-810E-765FE4FEFC62@ivs.edu> References: <8964AF5C-8CE3-4A45-8DF7-AE95DEC97309@khecari.com> <8CFF042D-45DD-4278-8EC2-C045E4E38C53@helsinki.fi> <63D420D7-29AD-4C65-810E-765FE4FEFC62@ivs.edu> Message-ID: <004f01ce990d$025b5e50$07121af0$@spro.net> X-posted, for the fun of it. Buddhist tantric yogis are included. Joanna K. ------------------------------------------------------- Though perhaps not directly relevant, Apte's Dictionary lists under Hastini a quote from the Ratimanjari, a text from the Kamashastra tradition which includes a description of the classic types of women lovers. Ratimanjari 8 describes the 'elephant-like' woman. Here's a possible translation of the quote: "With thick womb, thick buttocks and lips, thick fingers, thick breasts, amiable, eager for love, delighting in intense sexual passion, a tremendous eater, (unusually short), indeed the hastini is, she is considered the female elephant." The other three classic Kamashastra types are Shankini, Citrini and Rupini. These same typologies appear in some of the Buddhist tantras, with sometimes amusing, relatively unflattering male yogi versions to match. See for example Kalacakratantra/Vimalaprabha, Abhishekapatala vss 138-144, wherein the 'Elephant' yogi is described as a passionate lover who also moves slowly, is extremely foolish, and has a putrid smell. Cheers From jehms at xs4all.nl Thu Aug 15 07:24:57 2013 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:24:57 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] =?utf-8?b?Rlc6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gZ2FqYWfEgW1pbsSrIGFuZCBv?= =?utf-8?q?ther_elephant_similes_in_early_k=C4=81vya?= In-Reply-To: <004f01ce990d$025b5e50$07121af0$@spro.net> References: <8964AF5C-8CE3-4A45-8DF7-AE95DEC97309@khecari.com> <8CFF042D-45DD-4278-8EC2-C045E4E38C53@helsinki.fi> <63D420D7-29AD-4C65-810E-765FE4FEFC62@ivs.edu> <004f01ce990d$025b5e50$07121af0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <520CD6A9.1090405@xs4all.nl> thanx Jo for this gem Erik Op 14-8-2013 18:40, Jo schreef: > X-posted, for the fun of it. Buddhist tantric yogis are included. > > Joanna K. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Though perhaps not directly relevant, Apte's Dictionary lists under Hastini a quote from the Ratimanjari, a text from the Kamashastra tradition which includes a description of the classic types of women lovers. Ratimanjari 8 describes the 'elephant-like' woman. Here's a possible translation of the quote: "With thick womb, thick buttocks and lips, thick fingers, thick breasts, amiable, eager for love, delighting in intense sexual passion, a tremendous eater, (unusually short), indeed the hastini is, she is considered the female elephant." > > The other three classic Kamashastra types are Shankini, Citrini and Rupini. > > These same typologies appear in some of the Buddhist tantras, with sometimes amusing, relatively unflattering male yogi versions to match. See for example Kalacakratantra/Vimalaprabha, Abhishekapatala vss 138-144, wherein the 'Elephant' yogi is described as a passionate lover who also moves slowly, is extremely foolish, and has a putrid smell. > > > > Cheers > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From ugg-5 at spro.net Thu Aug 15 09:31:31 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:31:31 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] A website of interest Message-ID: <005c01ce99cc$853e3df0$8fbab9d0$@spro.net> This is the website of Indology scholar Jonathan Silk, at Leiden University. His website on Buddhism and social justice is here: http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html Joanna K. From ugg-5 at spro.net Sat Aug 17 15:44:31 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 15:44:31 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] FYI---Films on Theravada Buddhism Message-ID: <001901ce9b92$f5a82110$e0f86330$@spro.net> >From Joanna K. See: ?http://www.buddhistfilmfoundation.org page has a list of festival film offerings over years. -------------------------------------------- X-posted from risa-l, Thanks for these to Michael Jerryson. ??? Blue Collar and Buddha (1987, USA/Laos): 57 minutes. A film about Buddhism among Lao refugees in rural Illinois; it opens with the attempted bombing of the wat and portrays the tension between the Lao Buddhists and the surrounding White population. ?? The Buddha Comes to Sussex (1979, England, Thailand): 35 minutes. Chronicles Achaan Chah?s visit to London. An example of reverse colonialism! Full access at http://www.watnongpahpong.org/videobcs.php ?? Buddha?s Lost Children (2006, Thailand): 97 minutes ?? Burmese Harp (1967, Burma): 116 minutes. ?? Friends in High Places (2001, Burma): 56 minutes. ?? Deacon of Death (2004, Cambodia): 65 minutes. ?? Dharma River: Journey of a Thousand Buddhas (2005, Laos, Thailand, Burma): 80 minutes ?? ?Exploitation of Women in Buddhism? from What Harm Is It to Be a Woman??(2005?, Thailand): 33 minutes. It centers on work being done by religious female leaders in Thailand to redefine their place in Buddhism. ?? Footprint of the Buddha (1978, Sri Lanka): 54 minutes ?? Journey into Thailand: The Middle Path (1986, Thailand): 29 minutes. ?? The Life and Work of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu (1987, Thailand): 25 minutes. ?? ?? The Mindful Way (1970, Thailand): 25 minutes. A documentary about Achaan Chah and Wat Nong Pah Pong. Full access at http://www.watnongpahpong.org/videomfw.php . ?? Prajna Earth: Journey into Sacred Nature (2004, Bali, Cambodia, Java): 80 minutes ?? Samsara: Death and Rebirth in Cambodia (1989, Cambodia): 16 minutes. This uses passages from the?Dhammapada?juxtaposed with the depiction of efforts to reestablish society in post-Pol Pot Cambodia. ?? Today is Better than Two Tomorrows (2009, Laos): 75 minutes. ?? Vejen (1971, SEA, Burma): 22 minutes. this is an old film with a title in Danish meaning 'the Way' Films that provide contemporary contexts for Southeast Asian Buddhism ?? Mekhong Full Moon Party (2002, Thailand): 119 minutes. A wonderful Thai commercial film that explores the tensions between modernity and "tradition," countryside and city, reason and myth, science and religion. Full access at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-_u69_hSQA . ?? Nang Nak (1999, Thailand): 101 minutes. One of the more recent depictions of the famous myth of a devoted ghost wife and an unsuspecting husband. Article on Southeast Asian Buddhist Films ?? Justin McDaniel, ?The Emotional Lives of Buddhist Monks in Modern Thai Film,? Journal of Religion and Film 14.2 (2010): From ugg-5 at spro.net Mon Aug 19 18:55:13 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:55:13 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka Message-ID: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,11578,0,0,1,0 "Analysts say an anti-Muslim campaign by Buddhist nationalist groups in Sri Lanka is being fueled by fears about the swelling Muslim population. Muslims account for only 9% of the island nation's population of 20 million, the 2011 census found. But the community is the fastest growing. Between 1981 and 2011, Sri Lanka's Muslim population grew 78%, from 1.04 million to 1.86 million. In that period, Sri Lanka's majority Sinhalese-Buddhist community grew 38%, from 10.9 million to 15.8 million. 'There is fear that the Muslim population will engulf the Buddhist majority, fear that they will dominate businesses and occupy larger share of the native Sinhalese land,' said S. Chandrasekharan, director of South Asia Analysis Group, a New Delhi-based think-tank. Comment, JK: It is indeed true that most Muslim groups do not limit fertility; they tend to produce as many children "as Allah gives them", according to them. I encountered this view many times during my field research in Muslim majority Bangladesh. Salafis and Wahhabis also proscribe using birth control to limit fertility. These radically fundamentalist sects also forbid vaccinations. Reminds me of some fundo Christian sects in the US. "Unlike Myanmar, where clashes between Buddhists and the minority Muslim community have been running for decades, the tension in Sri Lanka has surfaced only in recent years......." [This assertion has to do with Burmese Buddhist attacks on Rohingyas, located in Burma opposite Bangladesh. The other antagonisms in Burma are more recent--having started after the inception of the same in Sri Lanka.] "... Conflicting ideologies could also be a cause of tension. Earlier this year, for example, the Bodu Bala Sena, a Sri Lankan Buddhist group, spearheaded a nationwide campaign against the Islamic practice of halal-slaughtered meat. Buddhist monks, who preach non-violence, view the practice of halal or slow death, as inhuman. Islamic law, on the other hand, says meat that isn't prepared using the halal technique is unfit for consumption...." JK: I too consider halal food-animal slaughter, as well as the Sikh version, as cruelty to the animal. I'll never forget my early mornings, while on field research in Dhaka, hearing from my small room in a 2d floor NGO office, the screams of chickens being halal slaughtered behind the building opposite. They were for daily consumption of the former Police Chief of Calcutta's household. Some ten or more birds would be killed every morning. Anyone, not necessarily a Buddhist, forced to hear the animal suffering daily, would develop extreme revulsion for the halal practice. For me the same goes for the US commercial slaughter of turkeys--just abominable. I have never been present when a chicken was slaughtered following the Judaic kosher rules, but I suspect that I'd be equally repelled.] Joanna K. From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Mon Aug 19 20:20:26 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:20:26 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> Message-ID: <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> > I > have never been present when a chicken was slaughtered following the > Judaic > kosher rules, but I suspect that I'd > be equally repelled.] I'm a vegetarian, so I find the whole idea of eating animals repulsive, but simply as point of fact, kashrut laws require painless, instant death. If the animals suffer, the meat will not be kosher. The animal must be "pure," disease free, etc. Kosher meat, btw, is acceptable to muslims as Halal, which is why many muslim immigrants to the US often move into orthodox Jewish neighborhoods -- the kosher butchers. Conversely, however, halal meat is NOT considered kosher, because the killing and preparations do not meet the kosher standards. Among Buddhists, Chinese and Korean Buddhists (esp clerics) observe vegetarian diets. The rest (Theravadin countries, Tibetans, Japanese, etc.) consume meat, though there are subsets that embrace vegetarianism. The Dalai Lama encourages others to adopt a vegetarian diet, and some contemporary Tibetans are attempting it, but he himself has been forbidden by his doctors from following it himself. Dan From charku at gmail.com Mon Aug 19 22:51:34 2013 From: charku at gmail.com (Charlie Hodgin) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 21:51:34 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Looking for a translation - quick inquiry Message-ID: Does anyone know of an English translation of the following: *The Heart Essence of Chetsun* - Chets?n Nyingtik (lce btsun snying tig) ? Thank you for any help or advice on this topic. Best regards, Charlie Hodgin From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 06:56:22 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 06:56:22 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> Message-ID: On Aug 19, 2013, at 20:20, "Dan Lusthaus" wrote: > kashrut laws require painless, instant death. If the animals suffer, the meat will not be kosher. Is death ever painless and instant? I suppose being vaporized in a nuclear explosion might come close, but the result of that is not kosher meat but no meat at all. That said, where I live now I find myself surrounded by people who hunt for much of their food. My neighbor hunts elk with a bow and arrow, and he swears when an elk or deer is shot in just the right place, it dies immediately and suffers little. He prays for the animals he harvests (his verb) and is convinced his prayers minimize the animal's suffering. To a non-hunter this sounds superstitious. To a non-participant in Judaism and Islam, kosher and halal sound equally superstitious. > Conversely, however, halal meat is NOT considered kosher, because the killing and preparations do not meet the kosher standards. Isn't there another factor, namely, that any food to be kosher must be blessed by a qualified rabbi? I worked once in a plant that processed cooking oil. One line of oil we made was kosher. Every month or so a rabbi came out to the plant and said some prayers over some vats of oil, thereby turning the canola oil (then known as rape seed oil) kosher. That was not so much a matter of purity as of ritual; the kosherized oil was in every other respect identical to the non-kosher oil. Richard From ugg-5 at spro.net Tue Aug 20 07:46:28 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 07:46:28 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> Message-ID: <001f01ce9dab$ac9530b0$05bf9210$@spro.net> On Behalf Of Richard Hayes Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:56 AM On Aug 19, 2013, at 20:20, "Dan Lusthaus" wrote: > kashrut laws require painless, instant death. If the animals suffer, the meat will not be kosher. Is death ever painless and instant? I suppose being vaporized in a nuclear explosion might come close, but the result of that is not kosher meat but no meat at all. That said, where I live now I find myself surrounded by people who hunt for much of their food. My neighbor hunts elk with a bow and arrow, and he swears when an elk or deer is shot in just the right place, it dies immediately and suffers little. He prays for the animals he harvests (his verb) and is convinced his prayers minimize the animal's suffering. To a non-hunter this sounds superstitious. To a non-participant in Judaism and Islam, kosher and halal sound equally superstitious. > Conversely, however, halal meat is NOT considered kosher, because the killing and preparations do not meet the kosher standards. Isn't there another factor, namely, that any food to be kosher must be blessed by a qualified rabbi? I worked once in a plant that processed cooking oil. One line of oil we made was kosher. Every month or so a rabbi came out to the plant and said some prayers over some vats of oil, thereby turning the canola oil (then known as rape seed oil) kosher. That was not so much a matter of purity as of ritual; the kosherized oil was in every other respect identical to the non-kosher oil. Richard _______________________________________________ I agree---superstition, i.e. magical transformation of something, is of the essence of food pre-proscriptions. They are not intended to produce painless deaths. The intentions are 'ritual purity', another superstition. Same with the transubstantiation of the body and blood of Jesus in Christian ritual. More superstition. Humans with their fearful deluded minds invented magic, the animals didn't invent it. Joanna From jehms at xs4all.nl Tue Aug 20 08:08:19 2013 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:08:19 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> Message-ID: <0e8ee1ff-576b-45a7-94f8-f720c3aaf4b2@email.android.com> This reminds me of hindu restaurants where the caste of the cook counts more than the standards of hygiene. Erik Richard Hayes schreef: >On Aug 19, 2013, at 20:20, "Dan Lusthaus" >wrote: > >> kashrut laws require painless, instant death. If the animals suffer, >the meat will not be kosher. > >Is death ever painless and instant? I suppose being vaporized in a >nuclear explosion might come close, but the result of that is not >kosher meat but no meat at all. > >That said, where I live now I find myself surrounded by people who hunt >for much of their food. My neighbor hunts elk with a bow and arrow, and >he swears when an elk or deer is shot in just the right place, it dies >immediately and suffers little. He prays for the animals he harvests >(his verb) and is convinced his prayers minimize the animal's >suffering. To a non-hunter this sounds superstitious. To a >non-participant in Judaism and Islam, kosher and halal sound equally >superstitious. > >> Conversely, however, halal meat is NOT considered kosher, because the >killing and preparations do not meet the kosher standards. > >Isn't there another factor, namely, that any food to be kosher must be >blessed by a qualified rabbi? I worked once in a plant that processed >cooking oil. One line of oil we made was kosher. Every month or so a >rabbi came out to the plant and said some prayers over some vats of >oil, thereby turning the canola oil (then known as rape seed oil) >kosher. That was not so much a matter of purity as of ritual; the >kosherized oil was in every other respect identical to the non-kosher >oil. > >Richard >_______________________________________________ >buddha-l mailing list >buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com >http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l -- Verzonden van mijn Android telefoon met K-9 Mail. From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Tue Aug 20 20:08:09 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:08:09 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net><19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> Message-ID: > Is death ever painless and instant? Which of us is the vegetarian? Obviously the quicker the death, the less pain. The kosher method is supposed to be fairly instantaneous. If it takes longer, the meat is not kosher. Oscar Meyer has a big slaugherhouse in Madison, Wisc. Back in the day they gave tours -- maybe they do again, thought they halted that for awhile. Cows were led down these labyrinthian chutes -- you could smell the blood ahead, and so could the cows who had glaring fear in their eyes. They were prodded along, until they came to a guy with a shotgun who put the barrel to their forehead and fired a stun round into their head, which knocked them out, but didn't kill them. They screamed and staggered, and fell. And then they would be killed and carved up. It was a glorious tour -- created many vegetarians, which is why they suspended the tours. Kosher slaughter is nothing like that. But it is slaughter. > Isn't there another factor, namely, that any food to be kosher must be > blessed by a qualified rabbi? I worked once in a plant that processed > cooking oil. One line of oil we made was kosher. Every month or so a rabbi > came out to the plant and said some prayers over some vats of oil, thereby > turning the canola oil (then known as rape seed oil) kosher. That was not > so much a matter of purity as of ritual; the kosherized oil was in every > other respect identical to the non-kosher oil. Do you imagine the gas got in your car because you told the clerk to have a nice day? Why not? Might it have something to do with being able to differentiate the tail end of a sequence of actions from the full series? Having actually participated in the koshering of industrial kitchens I can assure you whatever liturgical accompaniments are included are the least of it. It is hard, physical work, based on very precise rules. I presume no one was eating ham sandwiches or killing pigs, etc. near the kosher vats. If they were, that rabbi wasn't doing his job. Once all the materials are rendered kosher, they remain so unless sullied by impure vasanas or the prescribed maintenance is not followed. The hard work had already been done, and he was just coming out to make sure things were still ok. Inspection, not koshering. Likewise the oil, if unsullied, would already be kosher. Had it gone into the non-koshered vats, it would no longer be kosher, since the vats are not kosher. To say that another way, you could take oil from the kosher vats and put it in the nonkosher vats and sell that as nonkosher, but you couldn't do the reverse. Once it is in the nonkosher vats, it has lost its "purity". What initially kashered the vats, etc., back when they were first made kosher, was not liturgical words, but physical purifications. A blessing never hurt anything, but the words alone won't kosher anything, and that rabbi's monthly booster shots were the equivalent of the umpire saying "play ball." No one scores by saying that. It was probably also a bit of show to reassure whoever was paying him that he was earning the money. This is not the forum to go into the details of how things get koshered, but if someone is curious how to kosher their own kitchen (industrial varieties have similar requirements, but on a grander scale and with more complexity), see http://kosherfood.about.com/od/kosherfaq/ht/htkoshkitch.htm Dan From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 20:32:53 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:32:53 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> Message-ID: <74325F0E-A650-46C4-918A-CF6D1447E1D7@gmail.com> On Aug 20, 2013, at 20:08, "Dan Lusthaus" wrote: > Which of us is the vegetarian? I didn't realize only one of us could be a vegetarian. From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 21:09:19 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> Message-ID: <879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com> On Aug 20, 2013, at 20:08, "Dan Lusthaus" wrote: >> Is death ever painless and instant? > > Which of us is the vegetarian? Irrelevant. > Obviously the quicker the death, the less pain. Not necessarily. The pain may be of shorter duration, but it is not necessarily less intense. And if one takes into account how the animal is raised and led to slaughter, the amount of suffering that a domesticated animal raised for food undergoes varies considerably. It is not simply a matter of the method of delivering the death to the animal. > The kosher method is supposed to be fairly instantaneous. If it takes longer, the meat is not kosher. So if a mistake is made and the animal suffers a lingering death, then it won't be consumed by an observant Jew? That must be a comfort to the animal and its family. > Cows were led down these labyrinthian chutes -- you could smell the blood ahead, and so could the cows who had glaring fear in their eyes. Yes, I know. It was visiting a slaughterhouse in Alberta in 1967 that led me to give up eating meat. > Kosher slaughter is nothing like that. But it is slaughter. Precisely my point. Good to see we're in agreement. > I presume no one was eating ham sandwiches or killing pigs, etc. near the kosher vats. No lard ran through the pipes that led to the kosher vats. No lard ran through the pipes that ran into any of the vegetable oil vats. No pigs were killed near the premises. It was a seed oil refinery. I never bothered to take notes on what the workers ate, but given that most of them were Polish, Ukrainian and German Catholics and one or two Dutch Protestants, I wouldn't be surprised if an occasional ham sandwich slipped down the gullets of the workers who prepared the vegetable oil that eventually left the plant as kosher. And because I knew every pipeline and valve and vat in the place, I am quite sure the oil that was not deemed kosher was every bit as pure in every way as the kosher oil. > The hard work had already been done, and he was just coming out to make sure things were still ok. We had food inspectors insuring that everything was OK. Part of my job was to see to it that everything remained OK. All the vegetable oil that left the plant was processed in exactly the same way. Some of it was deemed kosher, some was not. The distinction was utterly vacuous. > To say that another way, you could take oil from the kosher vats and put it in the nonkosher vats and sell that as nonkosher, but you couldn't do the reverse. Once it is in the nonkosher vats, it has lost its "purity". I agree that scare quotes are appropriate here. The very idea of purity, beyond hygiene, was a complete fiction, an idea in the mind without a corresponding external reality. Maybe the rabbi was a Vij?aptim?trav?din? > This is not the forum to go into the details of how things get koshered Nor is it the forum to make the utterly unsupportable claim that koshering is in any way less superstitious and irrational or less cruel or more pure and more in keeping with the bodhisattva precepts than halal. Richard From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 22:03:29 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:03:29 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Looking for a translation - quick inquiry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66C1BBA2-12FC-4A64-9346-6D1256B64B2A@gmail.com> On Aug 19, 2013, at 22:51, Charlie Hodgin wrote: > Does anyone know of an English translation of the following: > > *The Heart Essence of Chetsun* - Chets?n Nyingtik (lce btsun snying > tig Thanks to my famously careless reading habits, I spent a couple of days thinking you were seeking a Sanskrit translation of the phrase "lce btsun snying thig" and was just about to send that information to you. But I now see you are interested in an English translation of a text, not the Sanskrit translation of the text's title. About 90% (a completely meaningless number based on no data whatsoever, but it sounds impressive to innumerate folks) of what one sees is what one assumes one will see. (Recent research suggests that these "assumptions" are the product of neuronal activity in the sense organs and are therefore preconscious and nothing over which anyone can have any control?we living organisms are hard-wired not to see things as they are but to see things as they are probably going to be a split second into the future; that's what makes it possible to drive cars, hit fast-pitched balls and finish sentences of slow-talking people from Arizona.) I naturally assume that everyone wants to know the Sanskrit for every technical term in Buddhism. Needless to say, that assumption leads to constantly bitter disappointment, which makes me exceedingly grumpy and difficult to live with. And therein lies the snying thig (bindu) of the Buddha-dharma. Day?mati From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Wed Aug 21 02:28:40 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 04:28:40 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net><19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> <879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan> >> Obviously the quicker the death, the less pain. > > Not necessarily. Yes, necessarily. Duration matters. >> The kosher method is supposed to be fairly instantaneous. If it takes >> longer, the meat is not kosher. > > So if a mistake is made and the animal suffers a lingering death, then it > won't be consumed by an observant Jew? That must be a comfort to the > animal and its family. Not to the cow and her family, but it is a powerful insentive to the one doing the slaughtering to get it right (i.e., quickly and correctly) as often as possible. >> Cows were led down these labyrinthian chutes -- you could smell the blood >> ahead, and so could the cows who had glaring fear in their eyes. > > Yes, I know. It was visiting a slaughterhouse in Alberta in 1967 that led > me to give up eating meat. So what got you start eating meat again? >> Kosher slaughter is nothing like that. But it is slaughter. > > Precisely my point. Good to see we're in agreement. Your point was hyperbolically beyond this point. Not all slaughter is the same in all respects, despite the use of the same word to indicate them all, just as not all "contributors" to buddha-l think the same, nor contribute equally in quality or quantity to its conversations. >And because I knew every pipeline and valve and vat in the place, I am >quite sure the oil that was not deemed kosher was every bit as pure in >every way as the kosher oil. Not in "every way." Perhaps in ways that mattered to you, but not in every way. This is like all the kind-hearted carnivores who think slipping some chicken stock or rennet-produced food is fine when feeding a vegetarian. It's easy to miss the point when the point is something you don't care about. Years ago in an arab restaurant in the old city of Jerusalem, I explained to the waiter that I was vegetarian, please no meat or fish in my food. He assured me profusely that everything would be made to my specifications. The food arrived filled with large chunks of visibly observable meat. I pointed it out to the waiter, who, with an expression of disgust, informed me that the meat was "kosher," therefore "fine." I told me I didn't care whether or not it was kosher (it probably wasn't, but that's another story). I told him again I was a vegetarian. The result was I left without eating and without paying, since he was adamant I should eat it, it was ok to eat, and he wasn't going to replace it with food I considered edible. He didn't get, and neither do you. > We had food inspectors insuring that everything was OK. That's reassuring, but they don't inspect for kashrut. They look for what they look for. Apparently you are satisfied with that, and so you could eat oil from either set of vats. >The distinction was utterly vacuous. Yeah, that's what the arab waiter thought. > Nor is it the forum to make the utterly unsupportable claim that koshering > is in any way less superstitious and irrational or less cruel or more pure > and more in keeping with the bodhisattva precepts than halal. No one has made those claims until you did. The distinction between kosher meat and halal is something recognized by Jewish and Muslim communities. As I said, Muslims consider kosher meat halal, but the inverse is NOT the case, and reason has to do with the procedures involved, not simply vacuous superstition. That's neither unsupported nor "my" claim. That's the considered opinion and practice of both communities. Ask your local Muslims. This is not the forum to make ignorant accusations, nor to keep repeating them, re-displaying the ignorance. As for comparison with bodhisattva precepts -- what might those be on this subject? Where does the vinaya instruct on the proper methods for slaughtering animals? In the Buddhist world, most Buddhists are NOT vegetarian. Being a butcher is considered a lowlife, untouchable existence, like leather tanning. Those who do it are ostracised and socially denigrated, but the Buddhists eat their products. Some might call that hypocritical. Some do call it discrimination. In Tibet and some other Buddhist countries, the butchers tend to be Muslims, and the comments above in this paragraph apply. In Japan, the untouchability of the Indian caste system was instituted, such as the burakamin caste (one of the Japanese equivalents to untouchability -- they are not to mix with, live among, or marry, etc. the higher castes), because people's families engaged in butchery, leather tanning, etc. are deemed impure. Even when after generations the families sought other occupations, the caste denigration continues, even to the present day, reinforced by the leading Buddhist institutions (this is the issue that spawned "Critical Buddhism" in the early 90s). As I mentioned previously, in China, Taiwan and Korea, Buddhist clerics usually observe strict vegetarian diets, but laypeople don't (although in Taiwan it is popular for Buddhists and Buddhist sympathizers to have a "Buddhist" lunch, which is to eat lunch -- but not other meals -- in a vegetarian restaurant, often nicknamed "Buddhist" restaurants, although that practice seems to be fading). In other Buddhist communities most clerics are NOT vegetarian. So I have no idea which "bodhisattva precepts" you think you are alluding to. The pro-vegetarian ones found in the Lankavatara Sutra -- a text you have expressed some disdain for in years past -- or the various vinaya codes, which don't forbid slaughter and butchering, but offer no meaningful guidelines on how to do it properly (only cautioning that meat slaughtered especially for you is not buddhistically kosher for clerics -- which shows as much lack of consideration for the cow and her family as you accuse others of displaying), or simply what people who consider themselves or are considered by others to be bodhisattvas? Or perhaps something out your own vijnaptimatra? Dan From chris.fynn at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 08:21:33 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:21:33 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Looking for a translation - quick inquiry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 20/08/2013, Charlie Hodgin wrote: > Does anyone know of an English translation of the following: > > *The Heart Essence of Chetsun* - Chets?n Nyingtik (lce btsun snying > tig) > ? > > Thank you for any help or advice on this topic. > > Best regards, > > Charlie Hodgin This is a whole collection of texts in one fair sized Tibetan volume. One or two small texts in this collection may have been translated for private circulation - but I very much doubt that the whole collection has been translated. From chris.fynn at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 08:43:35 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:43:35 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> Message-ID: On 20/08/2013, Jo wrote: > http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,11578,0,0,1,0 > > "Analysts say an anti-Muslim campaign by Buddhist nationalist groups in Sri > Lanka is being fueled by fears about the swelling Muslim population. > Muslims > account for only 9% of the island nation's population of 20 million, the > 2011 census found. But the community is the fastest growing. Between 1981 > and 2011, Sri Lanka's Muslim population grew 78%, from 1.04 million to 1.86 > million. In that period, Sri Lanka's majority Sinhalese-Buddhist community > grew 38%, from 10.9 million to 15.8 million. > 'There is fear that the Muslim population will engulf the Buddhist > majority, > fear that they will dominate businesses and occupy larger share of the > native Sinhalese land,' said S. Chandrasekharan, director of South Asia > Analysis Group, a New Delhi-based think-tank. Reports like this one: http://www.ceylontoday.lk/16-9052-news-detail-arrested-for-idol-worship.html which appear from time to time in the Sri Lankan press probably don't help matters either. > Comment, JK: It is indeed true that most Muslim groups do not limit > fertility; they tend to produce as many children "as Allah gives them", > according to them. I encountered this view many times during my field > research in Muslim majority Bangladesh. Salafis and Wahhabis also proscribe > using birth control to limit fertility. These radically fundamentalist > sects > also forbid vaccinations. Reminds me of some fundo Christian sects in the > US. Are there now many Salafi and Wahhabi Muslims in Sri Lanka? From chris.fynn at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 08:56:08 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:56:08 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <0e8ee1ff-576b-45a7-94f8-f720c3aaf4b2@email.android.com> References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> <0e8ee1ff-576b-45a7-94f8-f720c3aaf4b2@email.android.com> Message-ID: On 20/08/2013, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > This reminds me of hindu restaurants where the caste of the cook counts more > than the standards of hygiene. > > Erik Yes. I know Brahmin cooks are often employed at Indian weddings so that all the guests will eat. From chris.fynn at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 09:53:16 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 21:53:16 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Meat Eating Message-ID: On 20/08/2013, Dan Lusthaus wrote: >... > Among Buddhists, Chinese and Korean Buddhists (esp clerics) observe > vegetarian diets. The rest (Theravadin countries, Tibetans, Japanese, etc.) > consume meat, though there are subsets that embrace vegetarianism. The Dalai > Lama encourages others to adopt a vegetarian diet, and some contemporary > Tibetans are attempting it, but he himself has been forbidden by his doctors A number of Tibetan lamas, especially in the Nyingma traditon, promoted vegetarianism Shabkar Tsog Drug Rangdrol (1781-1851), Jigme Lingpa (1730-1798), and Paltrul Rinpoche (1808-1887) come to mind. http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/Shabkar_Food_of_Bodhisattvas_Introduction.pdf http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/Words_of_My_Perfect_Teacher_On_Food_and_Taking_Life.pdf Among contemporary Tibetan Lamas, Chatral Sangay Dorje, who had his 100th birthday in July, is particularly vociferous about this: http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/On_Meat_Eating.pdf http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/Benefits_of_Saving_Lives.pdf http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/TVA_Interview_Chatral_Rinpoche.pdf http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/Steadfast_Commitment_to_Ethics.pdf He dismisses the claims of some lamas who say they need to eat meat for health reasons by pointing out that all his relatives who ate meat died in their 50's - while he is healthy at an old age (now 100) and teaches that the result of saving lives and refraining from killing and eating meat is a long and healthy life. From drbob at comcast.net Wed Aug 21 14:02:58 2013 From: drbob at comcast.net (bob Woolery) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:02:58 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan> References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net><19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan><879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com> <1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan> Message-ID: I've mentioned before in this context the peculiar instruction regarding eating whatever shows up in your begging bowl. The finger of a leper was mentioned, seemingly clarifying both overcoming disgust and vegetarianism in the clergy. How does this square with vegetarian eating for a clergy dependent for food on the begging round? Bob Woolery -----Original Message----- As I mentioned previously, in China, Taiwan and Korea, Buddhist clerics usually observe strict vegetarian diets, but laypeople don't (although in Taiwan it is popular for Buddhists and Buddhist sympathizers to have a "Buddhist" lunch, which is to eat lunch -- but not other meals -- in a vegetarian restaurant, often nicknamed "Buddhist" restaurants, although that practice seems to be fading). In other Buddhist communities most clerics are NOT vegetarian. So I have no idea which "bodhisattva precepts" you think you are alluding to. The pro-vegetarian ones found in the Lankavatara Sutra -- a text you have expressed some disdain for in years past -- or the various vinaya codes, which don't forbid slaughter and butchering, but offer no meaningful guidelines on how to do it properly (only cautioning that meat slaughtered especially for you is not buddhistically kosher for clerics -- which shows as much lack of consideration for the cow and her family as you accuse others of displaying), or simply what people who consider themselves or are considered by others to be bodhisattvas? Or perhaps something out your own vijnaptimatra? Dan From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Wed Aug 21 15:37:51 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:37:51 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net><19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan><879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com><1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan> Message-ID: <63DADCCF493D4122B20A784FA3775E0F@Dan> > I've mentioned before in this context the peculiar instruction regarding > eating whatever shows up in your begging bowl. The finger of a leper was > mentioned, seemingly clarifying both overcoming disgust and vegetarianism > in > the clergy. How does this square with vegetarian eating for a clergy > dependent for food on the begging round? > Bob Woolery The begging bowl rule applies only in Theravadin countries. Most Theravadins are not vegetarian. Stated another way (since some aspersions were cast on brahman food sensibilities), there are many more Hindu vegetarians in South Asia than there are Buddhist vegetarians. One of the delights of traveling within India is that there are always vegetarian options. If one flies domestically within India, when the food comes around, instead of asking if you want the chicken or tuna -- as domestic US flights do (though they sell food, don't include it anymore in the price of the flight) -- you are asked vegetarian or non-vegetarian. You don't have to special order vegetarian meals ahead of time. Not so in Thailand, etc. Thank you, brahmans! The cows thank you as well. Mahayana, presuming monastic institutions with their own kitchens, can filter "donations" through those kitchens. Also, an informed class of donators, understanding they earn "merit" when giving acceptable edibles, etc. to clergy, and only negative karma for "nasty" gifts, follow vegetarian guidelines when giving or preparing for monastic dining in Korea, China and Taiwan. In Japan, until very recently, vegetarian fare was VERY hard to come by -- aside from some over-priced fancy tofu restaurants often affiliated with temples. I was pleasantly surprised in Nara last April when suddenly there were restaurants that offered vegetarian choices -- an influence from a constant stream of westerners requesting vegetarian food and the sense that business was being lost by not catering to that, and not because of any Buddhist influence (coming out of Horyu-ji, a major temple just outside Nara, the street is lined on both sides with restaurants and only one had a single vegetarian offering on its menu; the rest had nothing). In other words, the sense of what is appropriate to give (and eat) is cultural. Dan From ugg-5 at spro.net Wed Aug 21 19:35:57 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:35:57 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> Message-ID: <006b01ce9ed7$f3cf7620$db6e6260$@spro.net> There has always been a sizeable population of Muslims in Sri Lanka. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Sri_Lanka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Sri_Lanka#Sri_Lankan_Moors Besides the SL Moors, there are Malay Muslims and Indian Muslims. Chris asked: 'Are there now many Salafi and Wahhabi Muslims in Sri Lanka?' I have no statistics, although I'm betting that they are beginning to prevail. Hope that I'm wrong. What I do know is that since the 1970s, if not earlier, the Saudis have been propagating their version (Wahhabi) of Islam to Muslims everywhere on the planet, by means of missionizing clerics, interest free loans, financial support for building new mosques and madressahs, massive loans for building secular & religious Muslim institutions. They persuade their Muslim targets, who had been practicing local versions of religion for centuries, that they are not true Muslims, that they have allowed kaffir-- impure, unbeliever-- practices to invade their culture. Thus they persuade locals to allow them to import clerics from Saudi to man the mosques and madressahs. Hence, loss of ancient traditions. The Saudis also IMO have been encouraging Sunni-Shia conflict amongst Muslims who formerly got along pretty well for centuries, often going to one another's festivals. This inter-communal, collective habit has been condemned by Wahhabi or Salafi clerics as un-Islamic--such as holy days of Sufi saints, taking vows at their shrines or tombs, Shias processing hand-crafted towers on Ashura (thought of as replicas of Hussain's tomb). THEIR goal is to convert all Shias to Sunnis. Shiism has been condemned as un-Islamic. Sri Lankan Muslims even used to attend the annual celebration of the Hindu deity Kataragama--taking vows, engaging in body piercing penances, fire-walking, and such. This popular practice has been recorded in a fine film titled Kataragama, where the anthropologist Obeyeysekere was a consultant. I'm not saying that all SL Muslims participated thus--but many of them did, as they once did in India Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. The battle cry of the Wahhabis in S. Asia has always been "Islam is in danger". Its protection is forceful calls for its purification of all heathen practices and ideas. As the Wahhabis cause Muslim minorities to become more fanatical about a version of orthopraxis--to that extent they become more obvious to their non-Muslim majority neighbors. Look at the photo of Sri Lankan early 20th c Moors in the Wikipedia article: not one of them sports a full beard, while all wear mustaches. Wahhabism condemns mustaches but insists on the full uncut beard! Aside from the topis (hats), these chaps are dressed in Sri Lankan garb. Now ponder how it goes over with the Buddhists when the former non-ethnically clad Muslims start going about wearing full beards and Arab-imitating gowns, while the women start wearing various stages of hijab, from a headscarf or Indian-style burqa to the full Arab niqab, where only eyes appear from behind two slits in the black face covering. The same sort of shocking changes have begun appearing in southern (Malay part) Thailand. Indonesian women never used to cover their heads, at least a la Wahhabi--they wore a blouse over a lungi, maybe a sort of casually wrapped turban. Today many of them wear a special head covering now being promulgated all over Muslim southeast Asia--a white thing that fully covers the head & ties under the chin, with a sort of skirt below the chin that covers throat and chest--reminiscent of some nuns. Thus public gestures of exclusion from a majority culture, together with generally more aggressive expressions of their new correct religious practices.... I think of how the city of Dhaka changed between 1976 and 1987-98: once a quiet peaceful town, it turned into a loudly promulgated Muslim establishment (via loudspeakers on every religious building) with a mosque just about on every corner. Women stopped wearing sari as was the old Bengali custom--it was trumped by the Pakistani style of shalwar-kamiz with shawl. More burqas and long ankle length gowns with shawl began to appear in public. I'm guessing that niqabs have made an appearance as well, partly a demonstration that the woman wearing it has gone on Haj to Mecca. However, all this is not a problem in Bangladesh because it is a Muslim majority nation, has been since 1947 (and before). _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 00:10:15 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 00:10:15 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <5564A3A0C5434F8AB881005A28A7B03F@Dan> References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> <879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com> <1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan> <408BF458-9FB2-436B-9FDF-AB8C8D7B4069@gmail.com> <5564A3A0C5434F8AB881005A28A7B03F@Dan> Message-ID: On Aug 21, 2013, at 13:01 , Dan Lusthaus wrote: > So what got you start eating meat again? Nothing. A more interesting question might be what set of circumstances affected my views on diet in general and vegetarianism in particular. That change came about as a result of my participating in a number of interfaith events that were organized by an orthodox rabbi who was fastidiously observant of halacha and also a staunch vegetarian by conviction. The conferences he organized were always on some version of the theme of how the human race is one big happy family despite our minor religious differences. We are all children of God (even we atheists), and God loves all her children equally. As pleasant as it was to hear that mantra intoned in various ways, the reality of these events was that various religious convictions stood in the way, again and again, of harmony. Every day was a series of demonstrations of what a dysfunctional and unhappy family God's family is. Orthodox Christians refused to pray with Catholics and Protestants. Some Jews would not enter Christian churches. There was friction between Sunni and Shi'i Muslims. Therav?dins were shown disdain by Mah?y?nins, and vice versa. On one occasion Jews showed open hostility toward an Israeli Jew who had converted to Catholicism and become a priest. The behavior displayed at the events were profoundly discouraging to me. Among the many disturbing features of these meetings was the extraordinary difficulty involved in having meals together. We kept trying to do so, but whatever the venue, whether Montreal or Jerusalem or Arkansas or England, no meal was ever simple. The rabbi cross-examined the cooks to make sure no pot or spatula that had ever touched meat was used in the preparation of his food. He asked for disposable plates and cutlery, lest he be served off a plate that did not meet his strict dietary observances. The whole atmosphere of the meals was one of various kinds of division and disunity, and I was by no means the only one who noticed how much dietary fussiness was undermining the harmony and unity that the meetings were ostensibly about. As one person put it, "For crying out loud, eating was never meant to be this complicated. God can't possibly require this degree of rigidity." Meeting this exceptionally observant rabbi was a valuable experience for me, because it held up a mirror that enabled me to see what a royal pane in the donkey my own vegetarianism had been to others, and how totally unnecessary it is to be uncompromising about something that is not even (to my mind) a moral issue, but a matter of purely personal aesthetic preference. Now it just so happens that at the same time I was dealing with the fastidiously orthodox vegetarian rabbi, I attended a series of talks by a rabbi in New Mexico who grew up in a fastidiously observant home and went to a very disciplined ultra-orthodox yeshiva but came to feel that his observance was putting up barriers between himself and other Jews and other human beings in general and even between himself and God. His jocular way of stating his change of attitude was that he went from ultra-orthodoxy to ultra-flexidoxy. What that meant for him in practice is that he would observe certain practices in the privacy of his own home, but he would not let them stand in the way of interacting with native Americans, Hispanic Catholics, Protestants, and Sikhs and Hindus and Buddhists. When in their company he would eat as they ate, dress as they dressed and worship as they worshiped (to the extent that he was welcome to do so). If others put up barriers, he would honor the barriers, but he resolved that he himself would make no such barriers. He even went so far as to say that the word "hebrew" meant wanderer or nomad and that the essence of being Hebrew was to cross boundaries and barriers and frontiers and explore uncharted terrain. So I became a convert to the flexidox attitude, which means that in my own home I follow dietary disciplines that reflect my own purely subjective values and tastes, but outside the home I behave as others do. There are, of course, limits, imposed mostly by my own cowardice and fear. I don't go to gambling venues or brothels or strip clubs, because I don't enjoy being in noisy places where people are inclined to be unruly. Boisterous people terrorize me. So I'm no Vimalak?rti, but neither am I one to pass judgement on how others behave (except Republicans, of course). In the Spring semester I taught my last course before retirement. In the course we read the entire Lank?vat?ra S?tra with quite a bit of care (or as much care as can be given to something read in translation) and discussed the themes in it. When we got to the final chapter, the diatribe against carnivores with its superabundance of spurious arguments for vegetarianism, several students said they felt the chapter completely undermined the message of the rest of the s?tra. The rest of the text tirelessly explores the them of non-dualism, and warns repeatedly against making false mental distinctions and rending the unity of the pure consciousness of the Buddha. And then the whole text is spoiled by this ridiculously dualistic and adolescent vegetarian tirade. Some of the more imaginative students in the class were convinced the vegetarian chapter was deeply satirical and that the point of it was to demonstrate just how ugly and fatuous dualistic judgmentalism can be. (Can it be that the Lank? has coyote nature?) Well, Dr Lusthaus, since having the last word means a great deal to you, and since this topic of vegetarianism is much more important to you than it is to me, please go ahead and state your rejoinders. You asked an honest question out of the depth of your curiosity, and I answered to the best of my ability. Now I think I'll go eat a faux pork sausage, washed down with some almond milk and reflect on the relationship between form and emptiness. Richard From chris.fynn at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 03:00:36 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:00:36 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <63DADCCF493D4122B20A784FA3775E0F@Dan> References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> <879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com> <1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan> <63DADCCF493D4122B20A784FA3775E0F@Dan> Message-ID: On 22/08/2013, Dan Lusthaus wrote: >> I've mentioned before in this context the peculiar instruction regarding >> eating whatever shows up in your begging bowl. The finger of a leper was >> mentioned, seemingly clarifying both overcoming disgust and vegetarianism >> >> in >> the clergy. How does this square with vegetarian eating for a clergy >> dependent for food on the begging round? >> Bob Woolery > > The begging bowl rule applies only in Theravadin countries. Most Theravadins > > are not vegetarian. Stated another way (since some aspersions were cast on > brahman food sensibilities), there are many more Hindu vegetarians in South > > Asia than there are Buddhist vegetarians. One of the delights of traveling > within India is that there are always vegetarian options. If one flies > domestically within India, when the food comes around, instead of asking if > > you want the chicken or tuna -- as domestic US flights do (though they sell > > food, don't include it anymore in the price of the flight) -- you are asked > > vegetarian or non-vegetarian. You don't have to special order vegetarian > meals ahead of time. Not so in Thailand, etc. Thank you, brahmans! The cows > > thank you as well. > > Mahayana, presuming monastic institutions with their own kitchens, can > filter "donations" through those kitchens. Also, an informed class of > donators, understanding they earn "merit" when giving acceptable edibles, > etc. to clergy, and only negative karma for "nasty" gifts, follow vegetarian > > guidelines when giving or preparing for monastic dining in Korea, China and > > Taiwan. In Japan, until very recently, vegetarian fare was VERY hard to come > > by -- aside from some over-priced fancy tofu restaurants often affiliated > with temples. I was pleasantly surprised in Nara last April when suddenly > there were restaurants that offered vegetarian choices -- an influence from > > a constant stream of westerners requesting vegetarian food and the sense > that business was being lost by not catering to that, and not because of any > > Buddhist influence (coming out of Horyu-ji, a major temple just outside > Nara, the street is lined on both sides with restaurants and only one had a > > single vegetarian offering on its menu; the rest had nothing). > > In other words, the sense of what is appropriate to give (and eat) is > cultural. > > Dan Ven. Abhinyana: "Some Buddhists maintain that the Buddha never said we should be vegetarians, and that monks (who the bulk of the Buddhist rules apply to), may eat whatever is offered to them, as long as they do not see, hear, or suspect that the animals, fish or fowl were killed especially for them; if they so see, hear or suspect, they are forbidden to eat the flesh. But this standpoint is totally indefensible, as anyone who looks at things a little objectively can see. And to say, as some people do, that by eating meat, they are helping the animals with their spiritual growth, is too ridiculous and transparent to be seriously considered for a moment. Firstly, the Buddha never called anyone to believe or follow Him; instead, He urged people to see for themselves and find out what is true. Even so, many Buddhists become prisoners of books, repeating things like parrots or tape-recorders, without investigating, thereby missing the great value of the Buddha?s Way, which is a Way of self-reliance." http://shabkar.org/download/pdf/Taking_a_stand.pdf From drbob at comcast.net Thu Aug 22 06:37:34 2013 From: drbob at comcast.net (bob Woolery) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 05:37:34 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net><19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan><879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com><1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan><63DADCCF493D4122B20A784FA3775E0F@Dan> Message-ID: <552E9458D96647E5B91934A60156F34E@drbobPC> This passage rang such a bell in me that I chased the link to the specific diatribe against carnivores. -Firstly, the Buddha never called anyone to believe or follow Him; instead, He urged people to see for themselves and find out what is true. Even so, many Buddhists become prisoners of books, repeating things like parrots or tape-recorders, without investigating, thereby missing the great value of the Buddha's Way, which is a Way of self-reliance." http://shabkar.org/download/pdf/Taking_a_stand.pdf This whole argument hinges on the notion that plants are not sentient beings. Lakota claim that the very rocks have consciousness, and are the only such that don't have to eat. Plants consume mineral nourishment, transform it into their tissues, which we rudely yank out of the ground and consume. The rabbit or deer have the chance to run; that poor carrot just has to wait. If we give any credence to the notion of sentience in plants, the implication is that we all must kill to live. A strict Fruitarian might argue that he has escaped killing, and planting fruit trees maybe quashes the problem of seeds. The rest of us are for sure killing living things who have no choice in the matter. For those who remember Al Capp, Would eating a Smoo, who voluntarily presents in a ready to eat condition, incur the same moral consequences as slaughtering a defenseless carrot (or chicken)? This has perhaps wandered too far afield. bob From chris.fynn at gmail.com Fri Aug 23 02:12:07 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 14:12:07 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Insight into Anti-Muslim Violence in Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <552E9458D96647E5B91934A60156F34E@drbobPC> References: <001201ce9d3f$ee2ab5c0$ca802140$@spro.net> <19D2E818C2D742F98FD5735D8CD3A4EE@Dan> <879A4B6B-7705-4275-B40C-90C1C2F0A5BC@gmail.com> <1E31972094B14C08A613CED8D1F84EC6@Dan> <63DADCCF493D4122B20A784FA3775E0F@Dan> <552E9458D96647E5B91934A60156F34E@drbobPC> Message-ID: On 22/08/2013, bob Woolery wrote: > This passage rang such a bell in me that I chased the link to the specific > diatribe against carnivores. > -Firstly, the Buddha never called anyone to believe or follow Him; instead, > He urged people to see for themselves and find out what is true. Even so, > many Buddhists become prisoners of books, repeating things like parrots or > tape-recorders, without investigating, thereby missing the great value of > the Buddha's Way, which is a Way of self-reliance." > > http://shabkar.org/download/pdf/Taking_a_stand.pdf > This whole argument hinges on the notion that plants are not sentient > beings. Lakota claim that the very rocks have consciousness, and are the > only such that don't have to eat. Plants consume mineral nourishment, > transform it into their tissues, which we rudely yank out of the ground and > consume. The rabbit or deer have the chance to run; that poor carrot just > has to wait. It may hinge on that notion - but where in any text attributed to the Buddha can you find the teaching that plants or stones have sentience? > If we give any credence to the notion of sentience in plants, the > implication is that we all must kill to live. A strict Fruitarian might > argue that he has escaped killing, and planting fruit trees maybe quashes > the problem of seeds. The rest of us are for sure killing living things who > have no choice in the matter. Why in particular should a Buddhist give this notion credence? From jayarava at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 04:30:58 2013 From: jayarava at gmail.com (Michael Attwood) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:30:58 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] Large PoW Message-ID: Is anyone able to tell me the sources used ?by Takayasu Kimura ? for his? edition of the Pa?cavi??atis?hasrik? Praj??p?ramit?? His intro is in Japanese ? which I can't read. Thanks Jayarava From ugg-5 at spro.net Mon Aug 26 08:41:47 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 08:41:47 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Large PoW In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002001cea26a$64e47550$2ead5ff0$@spro.net> You might want to query the Indology list. -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Michael Attwood Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 4:31 AM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: [Buddha-l] Large PoW Is anyone able to tell me the sources used ?by Takayasu Kimura ? for his? edition of the Pa?cavi??atis?hasrik? Praj??p?ramit?? His intro is in Japanese ? which I can't read. Thanks Jayarava _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jayarava at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 05:23:45 2013 From: jayarava at gmail.com (Michael Attwood) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:23:45 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] Perfection of Sanskrit Message-ID: I'll try you'll on another academic question. Jan Nattier points out in her article on the Heart Sutra that "ni??h?nirv??apr?pta?" as a translation of ???? is a bit like the English phrase: "long time no see" ?.? T he grammar is Chinese, ?but ? the words are English (or Sanskrit). ?[I'm paraphrasing]? So I'm wondering what a better translation of ?? ???? in Sanskrit might be? Especially taking into account that the statement "na pr?pti" earlier in the text. ? By being apr?titva (in a state of non-attaining) the bodhisattva... "[something] nirv??a?". ?If you don't know Chinese, ? ?? ? means something like "finally, ultimately, in the end".? ? ? Any thoughts appreciated, and good ones will get a mention on my blog in the next few weeks. ? Best Wishes Jayarava? From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 07:40:09 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:40:09 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Perfection of Sanskrit References: Message-ID: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan> > Jan Nattier points out in her article on the Heart Sutra that > "ni??h?nirv??apr?pta?" as a translation of ???? is a bit like the > English > phrase: "long time no see" > So I'm wondering what a better translation of > > ???? in Sanskrit might be? Especially taking into account that the > statement "na pr?pti" earlier in the text. > By being apr?titva (in a state of non-attaining) the bodhisattva... > "[something] nirv??a?". > JayaravaQuickly -- The Skt line is: citt?vara?an?stitv?datrasto vipary?s?tikr?nto ni??hanirv??a? The corresponding Chinese is: ???????????????????????????? which could be translated: "[the bodhisattva, relying on Praj??-p?ramit?,] is without mental obstructions; because there are no obstructions, there is no fear. Completely detached from all conceptually-perverted dream thoughts, [this is] ultimate Nirvana." I suppose one could translate ni??ha-nirv??a? as "being fixed in nirvana" or "stable nirvana." Dan From selwyn at ntlworld.com Thu Aug 29 10:20:04 2013 From: selwyn at ntlworld.com (L.S. Cousins) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:20:04 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] Perfection of Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan> References: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan> Message-ID: <521F74B4.4070205@ntlworld.com> Dan, One need not take it as a compound, if one reads ni??h? nirv??a?. If it is a new sentence, the Sanskrit would translate as 'The culmination is nirv??a'. Lance On 29/08/2013 14:40, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > The Skt line is: > > citt?vara?an?stitv?datrasto vipary?s?tikr?nto ni??hanirv??a? > > The corresponding Chinese is: > > ???????????????????????????? > > which could be translated: > "[the bodhisattva, relying on Praj??-p?ramit?,] is without mental > obstructions; because there are no obstructions, there is no fear. > Completely detached from all conceptually-perverted dream thoughts, > [this is] ultimate Nirvana." > > I suppose one could translate ni??ha-nirv??a? as "being fixed in > nirvana" or "stable nirvana." From jayarava at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 02:51:27 2013 From: jayarava at gmail.com (Michael Attwood) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 09:51:27 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] Perfection of Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan> References: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan> Message-ID: Hi Dan and Lance Thanks for this. However, I am seeking a better Sanskrit translation of ????, not a better English translation of either. Best Wishes Jayarava On 29 August 2013 14:40, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > Jan Nattier points out in her article on the Heart Sutra that >> "ni??h?nirv??apr?pta?" as a translation of ???? is a bit like the English >> phrase: "long time no see" >> > > So I'm wondering what a better translation of >> >> ???? in Sanskrit might be? Especially taking into account that the >> statement "na pr?pti" earlier in the text. >> > > By being apr?titva (in a state of non-attaining) the bodhisattva... >> "[something] nirv??a?". >> > > JayaravaQuickly -- >> > > The Skt line is: > > citt?vara?an?stitv?datrasto vipary?s?tikr?nto ni??hanirv??a? > > The corresponding Chinese is: > > ???????????????????????????? > > which could be translated: > "[the bodhisattva, relying on Praj??-p?ramit?,] is without mental > obstructions; because there are no obstructions, there is no fear. > Completely detached from all conceptually-perverted dream thoughts, [this > is] ultimate Nirvana." > > I suppose one could translate ni??ha-nirv??a? as "being fixed in nirvana" > or "stable nirvana." > > Dan > ______________________________**_________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/**mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Fri Aug 30 04:03:30 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 06:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Perfection of Sanskrit References: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan> Message-ID: <68F78F086AC2480AB93149316C0FF997@Dan> > Thanks for this. However, I am seeking a better Sanskrit translation of ????, > not a better English translation of either. > Jayarava It doesn't work like that. While there are common equivalents, it's rarely a matter of one-to-one invariable correspondences. You had asked in the context of the Heart Sutra -- and the corresponding Skt there was ni??ha-nirv??a, which is found in other texts as well. In A. Hirakawa's Skt-Ch Dictionary he gives the following Skt equivalents for ????: nirv??a-paryavas?na, ni??ha-nirv??a, parinirv??a For ?????, he gives: parinirv?ta The Yogacarabhumi contains the following equivalents, including Tibetan: ???? atyanta-ni??he nirv??e SHIN TU MTHAR THUG PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA ?????? atyanta-ni??ha-nirv??a SHIN TU MTHAR THUG PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA Additional Tibetan equivalents (with probable Skt -- from Yogacarabhumi): ???? YONGS SU MYA NGAN LAS 'DA' BAR 'GYUR BA (pari-nir-/v?:parinirv?ti) ???? YONGS SU MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA (parinirv??a, nirv??a; parinirv?ta ???? MA LUS PA MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA (Complete nirv??a) ???????? 'JIG TSOGS 'GOG PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA (satk?ya-nirodha-nirv??a. satk?ya-nirodhe nirv??e) ???????? BDE BA BLA NA MED PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA (highest happiness nirv??a). So, the jury concludes, the "better" Skt for ???? are ni??ha-nirv??a and atyanta-ni??ha-nirv??a / atyanta-ni??he nirv??e. Dan From jayarava at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 07:13:20 2013 From: jayarava at gmail.com (Michael Attwood) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:13:20 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] Perfection of Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <68F78F086AC2480AB93149316C0FF997@Dan> References: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan> <68F78F086AC2480AB93149316C0FF997@Dan> Message-ID: Hi Dan, I have dictionaries. I had hoped for a little more imagination. Jayarava On 30 August 2013 11:03, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > Thanks for this. However, I am seeking a better Sanskrit translation of >> ????, >> not a better English translation of either. >> Jayarava >> > > It doesn't work like that. While there are common equivalents, it's rarely > a matter of one-to-one invariable correspondences. You had asked in the > context of the Heart Sutra -- and the corresponding Skt there was > ni??ha-nirv??a, which is found in other texts as well. > > In A. Hirakawa's Skt-Ch Dictionary he gives the following Skt equivalents > for ????: > > nirv??a-paryavas?na, ni??ha-nirv??a, parinirv??a > > For ?????, he gives: parinirv?ta > > The Yogacarabhumi contains the following equivalents, including Tibetan: > > ???? atyanta-ni??he nirv??e SHIN TU MTHAR THUG PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA > ?????? atyanta-ni??ha-nirv??a SHIN TU MTHAR THUG PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA > > Additional Tibetan equivalents (with probable Skt -- from Yogacarabhumi): > ???? YONGS SU MYA NGAN LAS 'DA' BAR 'GYUR BA (pari-nir-/v?:parinirv?ti) > ???? YONGS SU MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA (parinirv??a, nirv??a; parinirv?ta > ???? MA LUS PA MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA (Complete nirv??a) > > ???????? 'JIG TSOGS 'GOG PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA > (satk?ya-nirodha-nirv??a. satk?ya-nirodhe nirv??e) > ???????? BDE BA BLA NA MED PA'I MYA NGAN LAS 'DAS PA (highest happiness > nirv??a). > > So, the jury concludes, the "better" Skt for ???? are ni??ha-nirv??a and > atyanta-ni??ha-nirv??a / atyanta-ni??he nirv??e. > > Dan > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/**mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Fri Aug 30 12:58:42 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:58:42 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Perfection of Sanskrit References: <94BCAF6A9E67424B9CFD01AAAA1EF6C5@Dan><68F78F086AC2480AB93149316C0FF997@Dan> Message-ID: <3C1FB8CF47354A93BA4AD2CF8468F187@Dan> > Hi Dan, > > I have dictionaries. I had hoped for a little more imagination. > > Jayarava Then imagine. It seems you don't know what you want. These are the attested equivalents, i.e., what translators into Chinese used. ?? has the same semantic range as ni??ha / ni??h? (which is what Lance and I mentioned). If you want a fuller range of attested Sanskrit equivalents for ??, as used by Parmartha or Xuanzang, see Hirakawa's Index to the Abhidharmakosa, v.2. I'd copy it for you, but you have dictionaries... Dan From ugg-5 at spro.net Sat Aug 31 22:43:25 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:43:25 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Mes Aynak today Message-ID: <001b01cea6cd$cc3e6230$64bb2690$@spro.net> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/23/mes-aynak-ruins-afghanistan-cop per ".Mes Aynak has the potential to be the Pompeii of Afghanistan, if properly preserved. Or, if mining proceeds recklessly, visitors and future generations of Afghans will instead be confronted with the legacy of poor planning, mismanagement, and corruption at Mes Aynak - and the only thing they will be able to view will be a gigantic open pit filled with toxic sludge. Mes Aynak has the potential to be a win-win situation for all involved, if the key actors can free themselves from their all-or-nothing mindset and embark on a frank and intelligent collaboration." Joanna K. From ugg-5 at spro.net Sat Aug 31 23:03:53 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 23:03:53 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Mes Aynak today In-Reply-To: <001b01cea6cd$cc3e6230$64bb2690$@spro.net> References: <001b01cea6cd$cc3e6230$64bb2690$@spro.net> Message-ID: <002401cea6d0$a8023b50$f806b1f0$@spro.net> Just found this--a better more archaeology-oriented article: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/may/31/mes-aynak-afghanistan-buddhist- treasure JK ------------------------------------------------------ On Behalf Of Jo Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:43 PM http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/23/mes-aynak-ruins-afghanistan-cop per ".Mes Aynak has the potential to be the Pompeii of Afghanistan, if properly preserved. Or, if mining proceeds recklessly, visitors and future generations of Afghans will instead be confronted with the legacy of poor planning, mismanagement, and corruption at Mes Aynak - and the only thing they will be able to view will be a gigantic open pit filled with toxic sludge. Mes Aynak has the potential to be a win-win situation for all involved, if the key actors can free themselves from their all-or-nothing mindset and embark on a frank and intelligent collaboration." Joanna K. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l