From chris.fynn at gmail.com Mon Apr 1 02:21:23 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 14:21:23 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet China - not about self-immolations In-Reply-To: References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: On 01/04/2013, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > An AP story as it appeared on nytimes online. > Dan > > The Chinese government has been encouraging the development of mining and > other industries in Tibet to promote its economic growth and raise living > standards. The region has abundant deposits of precious minerals and metals, > yet Tibet remains among China's poorest areas despite its production of a > large share of the county's minerals. The BBC reported that all but two of the miners that were buried under this landslide were Han Chinese. I wonder how mines are goin to promote economic growth and raise living standards in Tibet if they employ so few Tibetans. Reports also say this mine was at a very high altitude and Tibetans are certainly better adapted to working at high altitudes. From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Mon Apr 1 03:48:56 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 03:48:56 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet China - not about self-immolations In-Reply-To: References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: <2BD0BE3D-39E3-47D3-A7F2-C5BDB18A6F6E@gmail.com> On Apr 1, 2013, at 2:21 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > Reports > also say this mine was at a very high altitude and Tibetans are > certainly better adapted to working at high altitudes. While all the other concerns raised about the economics of extraction (a very old story in human history) are valid, no one is better adapted to working at high altitudes than anyone else. It takes about two weeks to become acclimated to high altitude. It can be a rough two weeks, but the biological body is a very adaptable tool. I think everyone should have at least one. Richard From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 10:27:31 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 12:27:31 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet China - not about self-immolations References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: <3E838EA16A67419580BE8172E7F9BDAD@Dan> Chris and Richard, The reason I included the whole article instead of simply a link to the url is the more general information about the environmental devastation the Chinese have been wreaking, which is well described in the second half of the article. The Chinese are now infamous for buying up a resource, and then sending their OWN workers there to cultivate and collect it. They are quietly doing it around the globe -- Asia, Africa, South America, even the US and Canada, and already have an ownership lock on many of the world's most precious and/or necessary resources. They keep their workers in all-Chinese camps, and set up little mini-villages typically largely in isolation from the surrounding general population. They don't treat their own workers very well, and would probably treat native workers even worse, so not employing Tibetans is a mixed blessing. Protest and dissatisfaction to this Chinese practice remains local -- there is no global protest movement yet. I heartily agree with Richard's suggestion that a body is something everyone should have. Dan From ugg-5 at spro.net Mon Apr 1 10:54:31 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 10:54:31 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet China - not about self-immolations In-Reply-To: References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: <004b01ce2ef9$94c584b0$be508e10$@spro.net> "The Chinese government has been encouraging the development of mining and other industries in Tibet to promote its economic growth and raise living standards. The region has abundant deposits of precious minerals and metals, yet Tibet remains among China's poorest areas despite its production of a large share of the county's minerals." As I always do, here comes my anti-capitalist remark. (FYI--China now operates their economy as state capitalism, just like the old USSR). I wish to point out that massive corporate mining operations, 99% carried out in places with no environmental regulations (let's just say, Tibet, Peru, Papua New Guinea for a start), and featuring a poverty-stricken corps of reserve labor, do NOT in any way "raise living standards"--except for the owners/political patrons of these enterprises. Miners' pay is slave-level 'wages'. Nothing is done about their health, always endangered by mining work. These operations view the workers as wasteable commodities. To claim that mining does anything *positive* for anyone or any region is a deplorable and immoral hoax. Another example of Mappo. Joanna ------------------------------------------ On Behalf Of Dan Lusthaus Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 5:56 PM An AP story as it appeared on nytimes online. http://tinyurl.com/bp44md8 March 30, 2013 One Body Is Found at Site of Tibetan Landslide That Buried 83 By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS BEIJING (AP) - Rescuers in Tibet digging for victims of a huge landslide at a gold mining site found one body on Saturday, a day after 83 workers were buried in the disaster, Chinese state news media reported. The fate of the other victims was unknown. [.................] From ugg-5 at spro.net Mon Apr 1 10:56:38 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 10:56:38 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Revered 20th century CE Thai text? In-Reply-To: <20130331201237.5d848e44@aol.com> References: <20130331201237.5d848e44@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01ce2ef9$e0f6d410$a2e47c30$@spro.net> Thai woman? Samanthi Dissanayake's surname is Sinhalese. -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Basham Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:13 PM To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] Revered 20th century CE Thai text? Brits likely ruffling some Thai feathers, ignoring most Thai context/response. Seems to me that linguistic analysis would be more scientific than what is presented. OTT: Why is the text so revered? Is there a public English-language copy? Richard Basham ** Buddhist text's true author identified as Thai woman By Samanthi Dissanayake, BBC News, 28 March 2013 Leeds, UK -- A little-known Thai woman has been identified by researchers as the most likely author of an important Buddhist treatise, previously attributed to a high-profile monk. Thammanuthamma-patipatti is a set of dialogues, supposedly between two prominent Thai monks last century. It had been attributed to one of them - Venerable Luang Pu Mun Bhuridatta. But scholars believe it was really by a female devotee, making her one of the first Thai women to write such a text. ... http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,11390,0,0,1,0 _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From ugg-5 at spro.net Mon Apr 1 10:58:50 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 10:58:50 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Revered 20th century CE Thai text? References: <20130331201237.5d848e44@aol.com> Message-ID: <004d01ce2efa$2f1e0000$8d5a0000$@spro.net> OK I get it--April fool. From: Jo [mailto:ugg-5 at spro.net] Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 10:57 AM Thai woman? Samanthi Dissanayake's surname is Sinhalese. -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Basham Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:13 PM To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] Revered 20th century CE Thai text? Brits likely ruffling some Thai feathers, ignoring most Thai context/response. Seems to me that linguistic analysis would be more scientific than what is presented. OTT: Why is the text so revered? Is there a public English-language copy? Richard Basham ** Buddhist text's true author identified as Thai woman By Samanthi Dissanayake, BBC News, 28 March 2013 Leeds, UK -- A little-known Thai woman has been identified by researchers as the most likely author of an important Buddhist treatise, previously attributed to a high-profile monk. Thammanuthamma-patipatti is a set of dialogues, supposedly between two prominent Thai monks last century. It had been attributed to one of them - Venerable Luang Pu Mun Bhuridatta. But scholars believe it was really by a female devotee, making her one of the first Thai women to write such a text. ... http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,11390,0,0,1,0 _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Mon Apr 1 11:13:18 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:13:18 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet China - not about self-immolations In-Reply-To: <3E838EA16A67419580BE8172E7F9BDAD@Dan> References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> <3E838EA16A67419580BE8172E7F9BDAD@Dan> Message-ID: On Apr 1, 2013, at 10:27 , Dan Lusthaus wrote: > I heartily agree with Richard's suggestion that a body is something everyone should have. It took twenty-two years, but finally Lusthaus and Hayes have found something on which they can agree. Mark this day on your calendars, everyone. From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Mon Apr 1 11:15:20 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:15:20 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Revered 20th century CE Thai text? In-Reply-To: <004d01ce2efa$2f1e0000$8d5a0000$@spro.net> References: <20130331201237.5d848e44@aol.com> <004d01ce2efa$2f1e0000$8d5a0000$@spro.net> Message-ID: On Apr 1, 2013, at 10:58 , Jo wrote: > OK I get it--April fool. Merde! I should have realized that agreement between Lusthaus and Hayes was a hoax. From chris.fynn at gmail.com Tue Apr 2 03:54:28 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 15:54:28 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet China - not about self-immolations In-Reply-To: References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> <3E838EA16A67419580BE8172E7F9BDAD@Dan> Message-ID: On 01/04/2013, Richard Hayes wrote: > On Apr 1, 2013, at 10:27 , Dan Lusthaus wrote: > >> I heartily agree with Richard's suggestion that a body is something >> everyone should have. > > It took twenty-two years, but finally Lusthaus and Hayes have found > something on which they can agree. Mark this day on your calendars, > everyone. April 1? From chris.fynn at gmail.com Tue Apr 2 04:04:09 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 16:04:09 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] comment on illustration in Zarni's Todays Thoughts In-Reply-To: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: I wonder - Is there any relation between last year's attacks on Buddhists by Muslims in neighbouring Bangladesh - and the recent attacks on Muslims by Buddhists in Burma? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21161354 On 01/04/2013, Jo wrote: > Please look again at the photo here: > > http://www.maungzarni.com/2013/03/stop-969-burmas-fastest-growing-neo.html > > The younger Muslim woman in the picture of the hypocritical monk Wirathu is > wearing the type of hijab promoted by the Wahhabis and Salafis. When I > visited Burma in 1985, eating at Muslim restaurants on the road from Yangon > to Bagan, NONE of their women wore hijab of any kind nor did they hide from > the customers. The same was true of the Muslims in southern Thailand before > the Arab religious fanatics got to them. Also true of Indonesia before the > same religious promotions ended up with the creation of the Jamaah Islami > there-the group that blew up the nightclub in Bali and other atrocities. > > This has been a movement going on for several decades already but ignored > by > western media, whose owners are ever favorable to the Sunni oil barons. > > Attacking an ethnic group denoted as non-Burmese is also a political > strategy of the ruling junta in Burma, who need to divide in order to rule. > Further independent research is needed to ascertain if the Burmese Muslims > (aside from Rohingyas) have supported terrorism and anti-Buddhist actions. > So far, I don't believe it. However, their willingness to take on Arab > monetary support and religious extremism does not endear them to the > populations they live among. Q.E.D. > > Joanna > From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Tue Apr 2 04:51:51 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 04:51:51 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] comment on illustration in Zarni's Todays Thoughts In-Reply-To: References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:04 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > I wonder - Is there any relation between last year's attacks on > Buddhists by Muslims in neighbouring Bangladesh - and the recent > attacks on Muslims by Buddhists in Burma? In the 1980s Amnesty International was drawing attention to Buddhist attacks on Muslims in Burma; their concern at the time was that the attacks were condoned by the government and represented a systematic policy of marginalizing Muslims. What was unclear, and perhaps still is, was whether the the attacks were primarily racially motivated or religiously motivated. Of course, any attacks on anyone for any reason are objectionable, so there's a sense in which it doesn't matter whether it was a case of ethnic Bamans making life difficult for ethnic Bangla people or whether it was Buddhists pushing Muslims around. Ethnic tension in Burma has always existed, and the British both exploited it using the old divide-and-conquer strategy and cited ethnic tension among the colonized natives as a justification for imposing British rule. When the British quit Burma, all hell broke loose. Memories of the ugly violence among Burma's thirty-some ethnic groups in the 1950s have fueled the totalitarian governments ever since. The feeling seems to be that anything but a strong military government will set up the conditions for an ethnic bloodbath. For much of Burma's recent history, the Buddhist bhikkhu-sangha has had a pretty cozy relationship with the military regimes, although there have been times when relations have not been so cordial. When Buddhists are benefitting from the policies of the military regime, it tends not to make the news in the West. When the military is cracking Buddhist heads, it makes the front pages, and the default assumption is that peace-loving Buddhists are being persecuted by power-hungry generals. When the military is cracking Muslim heads, on the other hand, the default assumption is that rambunctious jihadis have gotten out of control, and the nice generals are trying to restore peace. The reality seems to be considerably more messy than the stereotypes that Western newspapers foist off on their readers would suggest. As in most human situations, it's hard to distinguish the heroes from the villains in Myanmar. Richard Hayes From ugg-5 at spro.net Tue Apr 2 12:06:08 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] comment on illustration in Zarni's Todays Thoughts In-Reply-To: References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: <002701ce2fcc$c074d880$415e8980$@spro.net> Reply to Chris Fynns' question. >From the article: "Shashanko Barua's voice trembles when he recounts how he and his family ran for their lives to escape an angry Muslim mob last year. They hid in a forest for a whole night near their village in the south-eastern Bangladeshi district of Cox's Bazar before returning home." The Cox's bazaar location is what counts here. This is where hundreds of Rohingya refugees live crowded together in camps, and also from where north and south of CB hundreds were sent back to Burma at one point. Thus Muslim antagonism to Theravada Buddhists is probably more intense here than elsewhere. Jihadist-type Muslims are experts at creating and disseminating blasphemous texts and images in order to start pogroms, as happened here: "The protests were triggered after an image allegedly insulting the Koran was posted on the Facebook site of a Buddhist youth. Investigations by local media later revealed the youth had nothing to do with the incident." This goes on all the time in Pakistan when some outfit wants to attack Christian Pakistanis. " and they say hundreds of people were brought in trucks and vans from Cox's Bazar and Chittagong districts." Chittagong is the biggest jihadist center in Bangladesh, more so than any other place. No surprise rioters were recruited from that city. That Hindu homes & temples were also ransacked always goes along with any kind of jihadi excuse to attack non-Muslims in Bangladesh, even though Hindus had absolutely nothing to do with it and weren't named in the alleged post on fb. "Our neighbours were also involved in the attacks. So the government should take measures to make the local Muslim community show tolerance. Only that will bring a permanent solution and prevent such events in the future," said Nilutpal Barua, a teacher." Shades of the Partition of India in 1947, when communal violence was carried out both in India and Pakistan by neighbors who had lived peacefully with one another for decades. In South Asia it has always been easy to instigate inter-religious violence if one religion's devotees think they have been attacked by another religion's devotees. Still, communal (a term for inter-ethnic or inter-religious) violence is always instigated...it doesn't happen spontaneously. The attacks in Burma on Rohingyas started when some entity claimed that a Buddhist girl was raped by Muslims. Doesn't take much. I doubt if the Sept. 2012 violence reported in this BBC article was related to goings on in Burma, but who the hell really knows? Joanna -------------------------------------------------- Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:04 AM I wonder - Is there any relation between last year's attacks on Buddhists by Muslims in neighbouring Bangladesh - and the recent attacks on Muslims by Buddhists in Burma? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21161354 From ugg-5 at spro.net Tue Apr 2 12:24:25 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 12:24:25 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] comment on illustration in Zarni's Todays Thoughts In-Reply-To: References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> Message-ID: <003401ce2fcf$4ea672b0$ebf35810$@spro.net> In the 1980s Amnesty International was drawing attention to Buddhist attacks on Muslims in Burma; their concern at the time was that the attacks were condoned by the government and represented a systematic policy of marginalizing Muslims. What was unclear, and perhaps still is, was whether the the attacks were primarily racially motivated or religiously motivated. Of course, any attacks on anyone for any reason are objectionable, so there's a sense in which it doesn't matter whether it was a case of ethnic Bamans making life difficult for ethnic Bangla people or whether it was Buddhists pushing Muslims around. Ethnic tension in Burma has always existed, and the British both exploited it using the old divide-and-conquer strategy and cited ethnic tension among the colonized natives as a justification for imposing British rule. When the British quit Burma, all hell broke loose. Memories of the ugly violence among Burma's thirty-some ethnic groups in the 1950s have fueled the to! talitarian governments ever since. The feeling seems to be that anything but a strong military government will set up the conditions for an ethnic bloodbath. For much of Burma's recent history, the Buddhist bhikkhu-sangha has had a pretty cozy relationship with the military regimes, although there have been times when relations have not been so cordial. When Buddhists are benefitting from the policies of the military regime, it tends not to make the news in the West. When the military is cracking Buddhist heads, it makes the front pages, and the default assumption is that peace-loving Buddhists are being persecuted by power-hungry generals. When the military is cracking Muslim heads, on the other hand, the default assumption is that rambunctious jihadis have gotten out of control, and the nice generals are trying to restore peace. The reality seems to be considerably more messy than the stereotypes that Western newspapers foist off on their readers would suggest. As in most! human situations, it's hard to distinguish the heroes from the villains in Myanmar. Richard Hayes _______________________________________________ I would just add to Richard's comments that Burma has had a long history of communal inter-ethnic violence, starting after Independence when hundreds of Indians of all faiths, long resident in Burma, fled back to India. Not all of them, as is often alleged by the Burmese media, worked for the British Raj! Richard seems to think that the non-Burman ethnics are still fighting one another. Contrary to what Burmese officials say, it's worth pointing out that today the ethnic hill tribes, who used to fight one another, stopped doing it eventually in the 80's and worked on making joint revolutionary organizations to fight Ne Win's Tatmadaw (his military police force, before Ne Win died). They still don't fight each other, but some of them, the Kachins up north and a segment of the Karens, for ex., are fighting for autonomy within a longed-for federal system that is not in the constitution as written by the military rulers. They are trying to preserve their zones as occupied by them and their non-Burman cultures. For info on the Kachin fight, see www.projectmaje.org/airwar.htm . Richard is right often about it being hard to distinguish heroes from villains in Burma. Joanna From ugg-5 at spro.net Thu Apr 4 10:29:04 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 10:29:04 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Book announcement Message-ID: <001101ce3151$862189e0$92649da0$@spro.net> Jinah Kim, Receptacle of the Sacred; Illustrated Manuscripts and the Buddhist Book Cult in South Asia, University of California Press, 2013 From gary.gach at gmail.com Mon Apr 8 09:42:55 2013 From: gary.gach at gmail.com (Gary Gach) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 08:42:55 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] 6th Zen Ancestor Message-ID: ? Anyone heard of 6th Zen Ancestor Hui Neng having come from Vietnam ? Enjoying spring freshness Hope you are too G 415.771.7793 http://word.to From dharmafarer at gmail.com Tue Apr 9 04:38:49 2013 From: dharmafarer at gmail.com (Piya Tan) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 18:38:49 +0800 Subject: [Buddha-l] 6th Zen Ancestor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gary, This is from "How Buddhism Became Chinese" (http://dharmafarer.org): [5.2.4.1] According to a biography of Hu?n?ng by *W?ng W?i* (?? 701-761) [5.2.4.2], written between 734 and 740,[1]Hu?n?ng was born of a lowly family in L?ngn?n ??, where an aborigine tribe lived peace?fully with the Chinese. In fact, in Sh?nhu??s brief account of Hu?n?ng?s life, and in the Platform Sutra, he was called a *G?**l?o *??,[2]one of the abo?ri?ginal peoples of the south?west (north of Vietnam). He was a man?ual laborer, moving northward and finding work at the monastery where the master H?ngr?n resided, where he was a quick learner. After the alleged trans?mission of the patri?archal robe, he returned to the south where for 16 years living among the poor and the lowly, the farmers and the small tradesmen. Then, he was discovered by a teacher of the Pari?nirv??a S?tra[3]who ordained him and started him on his own teaching career. ------------------------------ [1]Wang Wei?s inscription is undated. The year 740 is most likely as he became Censor of General Affairs in 739, and since the *Sh?nhu? Y?lu *gives this title (Hu Shih 1968: 137). For discussion, see Yampolsky 1967: 23. It also made an early reference to Sh?nhu??s being persecuted for his ?desire to present to his prince a pre?cious pearl.? (Hu Shih 1953: 10) [2]The Gelao region (same name) is now called Nhu Xuan, Thanh Hoa, in Vietnam. The Gelao are one of the oldest peoples of China. According to the ancient chronicles, their ancestors came from the border region between Sichuan and Shaanxi Provinces, from where they migrated toward Guizhou Province in the 5th cent BCE. Possibly they were one of the main components of the Yelang Kingdom that was established in Guizhou about this time. During the Han period, Yelang kingdom (known then as Lao) became its tributary. See http://www.ethnic-china.com/Gelao/gelaoindex.htm. [3] *D? b?nn**i?p?n j?ng* ????? (Nirv??a S?tra), T12.374.365-606. Accessible at http://www.cbeta.org/?result/T12/T12n0374.htm. Hope this is helpful. Perhaps more updated info might be posted after this. Piya Tan. On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Gary Gach wrote: > ? Anyone heard of 6th Zen Ancestor Hui Neng having come from Vietnam ? > > Enjoying spring freshness > Hope you are too > > G > > 415.771.7793 > http://word.to > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- *hp (65) 8211 0879* *The Minding Centre* 170 Upper Bukit Timah Road #11-04 Bukit Timah Shopping Centre Singapore 588179 Meditation courses & therapy: http://themindingcentre.org Sutta translation: http://dharmafarer.org From chris.fynn at gmail.com Wed Apr 10 07:23:45 2013 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:23:45 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] comment on illustration in Zarni's Todays Thoughts In-Reply-To: <003401ce2fcf$4ea672b0$ebf35810$@spro.net> References: <005e01ce2e39$a064feb0$e12efc10$@spro.net> <003401ce2fcf$4ea672b0$ebf35810$@spro.net> Message-ID: http://tinyurl.com/cryg9g6 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-myanmar-violence-specialreport-idUSBRE9370AP20130408 Reuters article with some more detailed background on the recent Buddhist-Muslim conflict in Burma From member at linkedin.com Thu Apr 11 11:23:12 2013 From: member at linkedin.com (Mitchell Ginsberg) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:23:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <1540829639.7183870.1365700992099.JavaMail.app@ela4-app0132.prod> LinkedIn ------------ Mitchell Ginsberg requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Subcribing, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Mitchell Accept invitation from Mitchell Ginsberg http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfe73xon-3f/uZeXWItUoh7oH9If9UKXTAjClDCubAX49Qg3JO_/blk/I520652408_10/3wOtCVFbmdxnSVFbm8JrnpKqlZJrmZzbmNJpjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP0NnPwMd38Rdz0OdkALkRtVjkATh3cLdzwMdzsPcjAPcz4LrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=208lkSEL3jk5I1 View profile of Mitchell Ginsberg http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfe73xon-3f/rso/232338520/0H4D/name/84369681_I520652408_10/?hs=false&tok=0H3j0f7Wzjk5I1 ------------------------------------------ You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Subcribing Buddha-L. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfe73xon-3f/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=3XTFFgPg3jk5I1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. From member at linkedin.com Thu Apr 11 11:27:00 2013 From: member at linkedin.com (Mitchell Ginsberg) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:27:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <382397661.3465202.1365701220749.JavaMail.app@ela4-app1201.prod> LinkedIn ------------ Mitchell Ginsberg requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Subcribing, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Mitchell Accept invitation from Mitchell Ginsberg http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfe78u4d-23/uZeXWItUoh7oH9If9UKXTAjClDCubAX49Qg3JO_/blk/I520659341_10/3wOtCVFbmdxnSVFbm8JrnpKqlZJrmZzbmNJpjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP0NnP4QcPARdz0OdkALkRtVjkATh3cLdzwMdzsPcjAPcz4LrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=3Pi1f5crfnk5I1 View profile of Mitchell Ginsberg http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfe78u4d-23/rso/232338520/0H4D/name/84369681_I520659341_10/?hs=false&tok=2Y0SCLYsnnk5I1 ------------------------------------------ You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Subcribing Buddha-L. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfe78u4d-23/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=33uuJ0Uy3nk5I1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. From jinavamsa at yahoo.com Thu Apr 11 12:11:17 2013 From: jinavamsa at yahoo.com (Mitchell Ginsberg) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1365703877.83752.YahooMailNeo@web162602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sorry about that. Linked in went crazy and has been sending out all sorts of invitations.? I obviously clicked a wrong button somewhere along the line!? Mitchell? http://www.jinavamsa.com? http://www.wisdommoonpublishing.com? From member at linkedin.com Thu Apr 11 13:48:38 2013 From: member at linkedin.com (Carol McQuire) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:48:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> LinkedIn ------------ Carol McQuire requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Subcribing, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Carol Accept invitation from Carol McQuire http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfecayo8-6u/uZeXWItUoh7oH9If9UKXTAjClDCubAX49Qg3JO_/blk/I520843580_10/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYMclYMe3kPd3wMczl9bQhBhAgVkPB3bPwMc3kMdPcPej4LrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=0QLhBioGRAklI1 View profile of Carol McQuire http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfecayo8-6u/rso/69031582/jF6X/name/84369681_I520843580_10/?hs=false&tok=3sd-h_JrlAklI1 ------------------------------------------ You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Subcribing Buddha-L. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfecayo8-6u/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=2H6R1g9MNAklI1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. From lidewij at gmail.com Thu Apr 11 13:55:49 2013 From: lidewij at gmail.com (Lidewij Niezink) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 21:55:49 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> Message-ID: How about we get all connected through linkedin then? ;-) *Lidewij Niezink** PhD**, Empathy & Altruism ;-)* Tel: 31 (0)592 769084 | Mobile: 31 (0)6 17746348 lidewij at gmail.com | www.lidewijniezink.com [image: Twitter] [image: LinkedIn] Contact me: [image: Skype] Lidewij.Niezink [image: Twitter] Latest tweet: Conception is not a fact. Perception is a fact, but we are all caught up in conception, in time. ~N.S. DESHPANDE & Jiddu Krishnamurti Follow @LidewijNi Reply Retweet 21:23 Apr-05 Get this email app! Designed with WiseStamp - Get yours On 11 April 2013 21:48, Carol McQuire wrote: > LinkedIn > ------------ > > > > > Carol McQuire requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Subcribing, > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - Carol > > Accept invitation from Carol McQuire > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfecayo8-6u/uZeXWItUoh7oH9If9UKXTAjClDCubAX49Qg3JO_/blk/I520843580_10/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYMclYMe3kPd3wMczl9bQhBhAgVkPB3bPwMc3kMdPcPej4LrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=0QLhBioGRAklI1 > > View profile of Carol McQuire > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfecayo8-6u/rso/69031582/jF6X/name/84369681_I520843580_10/?hs=false&tok=3sd-h_JrlAklI1 > ------------------------------------------ > You are receiving Invitation emails. > > > This email was intended for Subcribing Buddha-L. > Learn why this is included: > http://www.linkedin.com/e/2a9w9w-hfecayo8-6u/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=2H6R1g9MNAklI1 > > (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, > USA. > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Thu Apr 11 14:08:06 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:08:06 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> Message-ID: On Apr 11, 2013, at 13:55, Lidewij Niezink wrote: > How about we get all connected through linkedin then? Normally, I would agree with Lidewij?in fact, I think I was at one time connected with her on LinkedIn. Then I decided to cancel my account. It turns out LinkedIn is like the Cockroach Motel: you can link in, but you can't link out. I keep getting invitations to connect to people on LinkedIn. At the bottom of the invitations is a link that tells me I can stop getting these annoying invitations. I click on the link, and it takes me to the LinkedIn log in page. Of course, I can't log in, because I cancelled my account. So I am doomed to received unanswerable invitations for the rest of eternity. Is that karma, or what? Abraham LinkedIn From lidewij at gmail.com Thu Apr 11 14:11:01 2013 From: lidewij at gmail.com (Lidewij Niezink) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:11:01 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> Message-ID: If you can't fight them... rejoin them! ;-) Linkedin or not, you'll still be my linkedin buddy Abraham... till eternity and back. *Lidewij Niezink** PhD**, Empathy & Altruism ;-)* Tel: 31 (0)592 769084 | Mobile: 31 (0)6 17746348 lidewij at gmail.com | www.lidewijniezink.com [image: Twitter] [image: LinkedIn] Contact me: [image: Skype] Lidewij.Niezink [image: Twitter] Latest tweet: Conception is not a fact. Perception is a fact, but we are all caught up in conception, in time. ~N.S. DESHPANDE & Jiddu Krishnamurti Follow @LidewijNi Reply Retweet 21:23 Apr-05 Get this email app! Designed with WiseStamp - Get yours On 11 April 2013 22:08, Richard Hayes wrote: > On Apr 11, 2013, at 13:55, Lidewij Niezink wrote: > > > How about we get all connected through linkedin then? > > Normally, I would agree with Lidewij?in fact, I think I was at one time > connected with her on LinkedIn. Then I decided to cancel my account. It > turns out LinkedIn is like the Cockroach Motel: you can link in, but you > can't link out. I keep getting invitations to connect to people on > LinkedIn. At the bottom of the invitations is a link that tells me I can > stop getting these annoying invitations. I click on the link, and it takes > me to the LinkedIn log in page. Of course, I can't log in, because I > cancelled my account. So I am doomed to received unanswerable invitations > for the rest of eternity. Is that karma, or what? > > Abraham LinkedIn > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From kelsang_shraddha at hotmail.com Thu Apr 11 14:24:05 2013 From: kelsang_shraddha at hotmail.com (Carol McQuire) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:24:05 +0000 Subject: [Buddha-l] Chapter published concerning the New Kadampa Tradition In-Reply-To: References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod>, , , Message-ID: Sorry about the Linked-In invite. That was a mistake... But that reminded me - for your reference - I have recently had a 3,000 word article on my experiences as a New Kadampa Tradition nun published with Ashgate in the Inform Series on Minority Religions and Spiritual Movements. The chapter is called 'Realising the Guru's Intention; Hungry Humans and Awkward Animals in a New Kadampa Tradition Community'. Here is the Ashgate link: http://www.ashgate.com/default.aspx?page=637&title_id=&edition_id=11789&calcTitle=1 And a Google books link where part of the chapter can be read. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cbmpW-EdGtYC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false This is actually the first 'survivor' account to get through the libel threats the NKT has been accustomed to making and looks in some detail at the issue of the 'invented' ordination and the conditions under which NKT members practice. Carol McQuire From ugg-5 at spro.net Thu Apr 11 19:01:54 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:01:54 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] FW: Chapter published concerning the New Kadampa Tradition In-Reply-To: References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod>, , , Message-ID: <001a01ce3719$537aa620$fa6ff260$@spro.net> Carol, Thanks for alerting us to the book and your article. Joanna ------------------------------------------------ On Behalf Of Carol McQuire Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 2:24 PM Sorry about the Linked-In invite. That was a mistake... But that reminded me - for your reference - I have recently had a 3,000 word article on my experiences as a New Kadampa Tradition nun published with Ashgate in the Inform Series on Minority Religions and Spiritual Movements. The chapter is called 'Realising the Guru's Intention; Hungry Humans and Awkward Animals in a New Kadampa Tradition Community'. Here is the Ashgate link: http://www.ashgate.com/default.aspx?page=637&title_id=&edition_id=11789&calc Title=1 And a Google books link where part of the chapter can be read. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cbmpW-EdGtYC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepag e&q&f=false This is actually the first 'survivor' account to get through the libel threats the NKT has been accustomed to making and looks in some detail at the issue of the 'invented' ordination and the conditions under which NKT members practice. Carol McQuire From rahula_80 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 20 21:42:54 2013 From: rahula_80 at yahoo.com (Ngawang Dorje) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 20:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Buddha-l] source of quote:ruler is just In-Reply-To: References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod>, , , Message-ID: <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hi, I have seen this quote attributed to the Buddha: ?When the ruler of a country is just and good, the ministers become just and good, when the ministers are just and good, the higher officials become just and good, when the higher officials are just and good, the rank and file become just and good, when the rank and file become just and good, the people become just and good.? Anyone know the source? Thanks, Rahula From ugg-5 at spro.net Sat Apr 20 22:04:39 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:04:39 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] source of quote:ruler is just In-Reply-To: <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod>, , , <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net> Sounds more like Confucius to me! Especially the translated phrase as "rank and file"....................lol. Joanna -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Ngawang Dorje Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:43 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: [Buddha-l] source of quote:ruler is just Hi, I have seen this quote attributed to the Buddha: ?When the ruler of a country is just and good, the ministers become just and good, when the ministers are just and good, the higher officials become just and good, when the higher officials are just and good, the rank and file become just and good, when the rank and file become just and good, the people become just and good.? Anyone know the source? Thanks, Rahula _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com Sat Apr 20 22:52:05 2013 From: richard.hayes.unm at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:52:05 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] source of quote:ruler is just In-Reply-To: <003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net> References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net> Message-ID: <6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com> On Apr 20, 2013, at 10:04 PM, "Jo" wrote: > Sounds more like Confucius to me! Or Chairman Mao. From smith at wheelwrightassoc.com Sat Apr 20 23:35:31 2013 From: smith at wheelwrightassoc.com (Timothy Smith) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:35:31 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] source of quote:ruler is just In-Reply-To: <6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com> References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net> <6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0116DD06-C982-4F39-A1C6-75B468ADE6A5@wheelwrightassoc.com> Or the Turks, who apparently reversed it, in typical byzantine fashion to: "a fish stinks from the head down." Timothy Smith www.wheelwrightassoc.com On Apr 20, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Richard Hayes wrote: > On Apr 20, 2013, at 10:04 PM, "Jo" wrote: > >> Sounds more like Confucius to me! > > Or Chairman Mao. > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From karp at uw.edu.pl Sun Apr 21 01:04:17 2013 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:04:17 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] source of quote:ruler is just In-Reply-To: <0116DD06-C982-4F39-A1C6-75B468ADE6A5@wheelwrightassoc.com> References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net> <6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com> <0116DD06-C982-4F39-A1C6-75B468ADE6A5@wheelwrightassoc.com> Message-ID: Some insist it's from the Anguttara Nikaya. No further details. Artur K. 2013/4/21 Timothy Smith > Or the Turks, who apparently reversed it, in typical byzantine fashion to: > "a fish stinks from the head down." > > Timothy Smith > www.wheelwrightassoc.com > > > > > On Apr 20, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Richard Hayes wrote: > > > On Apr 20, 2013, at 10:04 PM, "Jo" wrote: > > > >> Sounds more like Confucius to me! > > > > Or Chairman Mao. > > _______________________________________________ > > buddha-l mailing list > > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Wed Apr 24 00:54:19 2013 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 02:54:19 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Mes Aynak References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod><1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net><6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com><0116DD06-C982-4F39-A1C6-75B468ADE6A5@wheelwrightassoc.com> Message-ID: Some may remember a few years ago the alerts and discussions posted here about a Chinese mining company poised to decimate a huge, irreplaceable Afghani excavation site on which a Buddhist monastic complex going back nearly 2000 years had been newly discovered, but barely explored. The Chinese company, under international protest, agreed to a temporary suspension of their strip mining for copper. That temporary period is about to come to end, less than 10% of the area has been excavated, and most of what has been found so far is too fragile to move. The mining will destroy everything. Already spectacular finds have been made, and the archeologists say the best remains undiscovered. An "op-doc" in the nyt (copied below) reviews the status. Included on the nyt web site with the piece is a poignant video, a bit over 7.5 minutes, showing some of the finds, interviews, etc. Dan http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/24/opinion/a-chinese-threat-to-afghan-buddhas.html?hp&_r=0 or http://tinyurl.com/b99emht -- April 23, 2013 'A Chinese Threat to Afghan Buddhas' By BRENT E. HUFFMAN When I first traveled to Afghanistan in 2004, I immediately fell in love with the country and its people, and I was optimistic that the young people in Kabul would soon have better lives. Yet my hopes dimmed as I learned about a revolving door of exploitation at the hands of the Russians, Americans and now the Chinese - who have begun mining Afghanistan's plentiful natural resources and threatening priceless national heritage sites. In 2007, the Chinese state-owned China Metallurgical Group Corporation (M.C.C.) won the rights to mine copper at a site called Mes Aynak. Situated in volatile Logar Province, Mes Aynak is home to one of the world's largest untapped copper deposits - worth more than $100 billion. Yet, as this Op-Doc video shows, the site also houses the astonishing remains of an ancient Buddhist city, which archaeologists are now racing to save. An international team has only until June to finish the excavations, which began in 2009. So far they have uncovered golden Buddhist statues, dozens of buildings and fragile Buddhist manuscripts buried within temples. Yet perhaps 90 percent of the site remains underground and unseen. To finish the job could take decades. In all likelihood, the destruction of the Buddhist sites will begin later this year. The Afghan government is letting this happen - it's a tragedy that echoes the notorious destruction of the Buddhas at Bamiyan in 2001. Yet, even after four trips to Afghanistan to report this story, it's difficult for me to know for sure what will become of Mes Aynak. Recent repeated attempts to contact the M.C.C. to confirm the mining timeline for this story have gone unanswered. There is widespread corruption and virtually no government transparency in Afghanistan, and the M.C.C. contract has never been made public. I have heard arguments in favor of the mining. The copper deal is the largest foreign investment and private business venture in Afghanistan's history. There is hope among some Afghans that this Chinese deal will bring real and positive change to Afghanistan - jobs, infrastructure and money to help fuel economic growth. Some of the Buddhist artifacts are being rescued, and it's possible that not all of the ancient sites will be destroyed by the mining. But I worry that nothing positive will come from this mining project. I fear the mineral resource is being undervalued, that money will be lost to corruption in the Afghan ministries and that jobs at the mine will go to Chinese immigrants. Geologists tell me that, as a result of the open-pit style of mining, the site will most likely become so toxic that nothing can ever live there again. Money can come and go, but these precious historical artifacts will be gone forever. Brent E. Huffman is a documentary filmmaker and assistant professor at the Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern University. He is expanding the material in this Op-Doc into a feature-length documentary. From ugg-5 at spro.net Wed Apr 24 09:21:19 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:21:19 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Mes Aynak In-Reply-To: References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod><1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net><6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com><0116DD06-C982-4F39-A1C6-75B468ADE6A5@wheelwrightassoc.com> Message-ID: <000301ce40ff$5f5fe000$1e1fa000$@spro.net> On question arises about the site as a copper source: why hasn't any exploration outside the Mes Aynak site been done to see if copper is underground in the beyond or surrounding areas? Mes Aynak could very well have been preserved for archaeological excavation if that had been, or is, done. Joanna From caodemarte at yahoo.com Wed Apr 24 11:21:51 2013 From: caodemarte at yahoo.com (GM) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:21:51 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Mes Aynak In-Reply-To: <000301ce40ff$5f5fe000$1e1fa000$@spro.net> References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net> <6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com> <0116DD06-C982-4F39-A1C6-75B468ADE6A5@wheelwrightassoc.com> <000301ce40ff$5f5fe000$1e1fa000$@spro.net> Message-ID: <438721DE-2990-4854-9024-6EB86BBB98DB@yahoo.com> I believe it has been explored, at least to a some degree. If found, I suspect a new site would likely be sold separately or added to the existing concession for a hefty price, not used to entirely replace the existing Chinese concession. Some years ago a German geological survey showed that Afghanistan was rich in untapped mineral deposits. They remain untapped due to security concerns. The Mes Aynak site is rich and in a relatively secure site (meaning that the odds of being able to ship out the copper are better than in most places). It is a risky enough business climate for that and other reasons. Only a Chinese company with a such a strong domestic commodity market was interested. A deteriorating security situation may preserve the site if it makes mining there unprofitable. On a more hopeful note, a new government might well decide that the concession is invalid due to corrupt practices or demand new payments, again making the mine unprofitable enough for the Chinese to abandon. On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Jo" wrote: > On question arises about the site as a copper source: why hasn't any > exploration outside the Mes Aynak site been done to see if copper is > underground in the beyond or surrounding areas? Mes Aynak could very well > have been preserved for archaeological excavation if that had been, or is, > done. > > Joanna > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From ugg-5 at spro.net Wed Apr 24 13:05:12 2013 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:05:12 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Mes Aynak In-Reply-To: <438721DE-2990-4854-9024-6EB86BBB98DB@yahoo.com> References: <430482582.8557680.1365709718045.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod> <1366515774.76116.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <003c01ce3e45$58d9fe30$0a8dfa90$@spro.net> <6213B3F5-0E2D-4726-BEBA-74E38CA392F9@gmail.com> <0116DD06-C982-4F39-A1C6-75B468ADE6A5@wheelwrightassoc.com> <000301ce40ff$5f5fe000$1e1fa000$@spro.net> <438721DE-2990-4854-9024-6EB86BBB98DB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601ce411e$a616a7d0$f243f770$@spro.net> An instance where more corruption would be better! In that country, should be easy to generate a lot more corruption. JK -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of GM Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:22 AM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Mes Aynak I believe it has been explored, at least to a some degree. If found, I suspect a new site would likely be sold separately or added to the existing concession for a hefty price, not used to entirely replace the existing Chinese concession. Some years ago a German geological survey showed that Afghanistan was rich in untapped mineral deposits. They remain untapped due to security concerns. The Mes Aynak site is rich and in a relatively secure site (meaning that the odds of being able to ship out the copper are better than in most places). It is a risky enough business climate for that and other reasons. Only a Chinese company with a such a strong domestic commodity market was interested. A deteriorating security situation may preserve the site if it makes mining there unprofitable. On a more hopeful note, a new government might well decide that the concession is invalid due to corrupt practices or demand new payments, again making the mine unprofitable enough for the Chinese to abandon. On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Jo" wrote: > On question arises about the site as a copper source: why hasn't any > exploration outside the Mes Aynak site been done to see if copper is > underground in the beyond or surrounding areas? Mes Aynak could very > well have been preserved for archaeological excavation if that had > been, or is, done. > > Joanna > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l