[Buddha-l] Buddhists taking a stand against Islamaphobia

[Franz Metcalf]

Richard et al.,

Oh fine. I have to do some 'splainin'.

I wrote,

>> All acts (except those of an arahant) cause suffering, yet the Buddha did not counsel suicide (as did the Mahavira).


Richard wrote,

> First, without evidence that all acts cause suffering, this claim sounds like pure dogma.

Yes, that is precisely what it is. I can't recall, offhand, where I got it, though I can say it was from the canon and positively reeked of self-insulating institutional rationalization. Still, it strikes me that it's true, at least in matters of survival. We live on the suffering of others.

> Second, on what grounds can one say that an arhant's actions are different in their consequences from anyone else's.

Just that an arahant is one who no longer produces karma. Thus, de jure, an arahant's actions must not create suffering. As I agreed, this is pure dogma.

> Third, Mahāvīra never counseled suicide. He counseled harmlessness. Dying as a result of not harming others is not by any stretch of the imagination suicide. The primary intention of the act of suicide is to kill oneself. The primary intention of desisting completely from harming others is desisting completely from harming others.

Quite correct as regards intention. But I wonder if here you are quibbling, Richard. The intention to not kill anything else results in the result of killing oneself. If that is not direct suicide, it is surely self-destruction. Still, you are the philosopher; those sorts of distinctions are your bread and butter and I don't mean to take those away from you--you're not a Jain and can rejoice in them.

Since Richard has pulled the dogmatic chair out from under me, I'll reveal that I really do feel that our own survival as individuals does rest on the destruction other living things, both directly and indirectly. There is simply no avoiding this--even for arahants (and who has ever met one of *those*?)--unless we're willing to accept the unavoidable consequence of the stopping of that destruction (in others words the consequence of our deaths). But of course Buddhists don't *have* to do this, because intention matters. It's the Buddhist get out of jail free card.

Speaking of getting out of jail, I must go. Thanks, Richard for keeping me at least marginally honest.

Franz