[Buddha-l] Enlightenment as dogma

[Federico Andino]

Yes, that´s always something that bothered me. From which buddhist author do
people get the idea that being a buddhist entails accepting everything?

On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Stefan Detrez <stefan.detrez at gmail.com>wrote:

> >... I do think that the difference is that Christians do not think
> critically
>
> >
> > Give me a break! Some Christians, and some Buddhists, think
> > critically, and some don't. (And I'd be inclined to say that goes for
> > some Christian groups and Buddhist groups as well)
> >
> >
> Yes, Christians think critically when it's not related to the core tenets
> of
> their own beliefs, yet they do about other people's beliefs. I guess that
> goes for Buddhists too. Unless we speak of a postmodern, stripped-down
> version where miracles, belief in angels and Satan is frowned upon or
> questioned in ideologically pluralistic milieus and therefore dropped,
> maybe
> because it's too intellectually demanding to defend them. A customized
> version which serves from day to day and doesn't need extraordinary
> explaining, for instance. I think I observe the same thing too with regard
> to Buddhists: some 'believe' in transmigration, others don't, some take the
> Buddha's 32 Marks as literal, others as metaphor. On what basis beliefs are
> adopted is an interesting question. Would one be charged with apostasy if
> one expressed doubt about the Buddha's nirvana, or  Maya's being touched in
> the side by an elephant and getting pregnant, which is miraculously similar
> to Mary's immaculate conception.
>
>
> > Nor does being a Christian nor being a Buddhist imply being a
> > literalist. Again, some are and some aren't.
> >
> > When it comes to Christianity, there ARE some basics which are to be
> believed literally by literally all Christians. The Resurrection, for
> instance. Jesus being the literal son of his god. Immaculate conception.
> I'm
> not sure to what extent Christian or Buddhist you can call yourself if you
> may choose what you'll see as part of your religious identity. Some
> Muslims,
> for instance, say they 'have to believe in (the existence of) jinns.' In
> the
> choice of words you already see a discomfort about that particular belief
> they have.
>
>
> > And while it may be true that you can't find out what works for you
> > spiritually without trying it out, that doesn't mean checking your
> > brains at the door. Nor trying out just any old thing you come
> > across. Use your head! (I've found that that is just about always good
> > advice.)
> >
> > The hard part is maintaining respect for those on the opposite side
> > of the critical thinking diviide. Even if they don't have anything I
> > want. And especially even if I'm sure my way is the better way. Oh
> > what trouble that gets me in. Respect for other views - I guess that
> > was actually taught to me by the Hindus I used to hang out with but
> > whatever, it's a tall order. And I think a very important one.
> >
> >
> You are very wrong. The Buddha engaged in plenty of debating with other
> sects, trashing their theories. I also think of the elaborate and intricate
> polemics between Madhyamika and Cittamatra-schools. Tsongkhapa's minute
> analyses of opposing opinions and their subsequent destruction. I don't see
> much respect there for other peoples' views. It's hypocritical to leave
> someone in an erroneous view, even if caution is warranted. Today, where we
> already deal with Islam's en Evangelical Christianity's presence, wanted
> and
> unwanted, we should for the sake of our future engage in discussion and not
> resort to culturally relativist rhetoric, aborting any thorough discussion
> about beliefs with which people shape their lives, but also the lives of
> others, and maybe one day yours too. People who say they respect other
> people's view show cowardice to differ in opinion, don't care about other
> views or are not sure of the validity of their own views. Engaging in
> discussion has always lead to favorable progress, even if harsh critique
> for
> religious beliefs is involved. µ
>
> Stefan
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