[Buddha-l] Enlightenment as dogma

[JKirkpatrick]

Good thinking, Federico...........makes a lot of sense.

Joanna
____________________________

In my experience, most truly devoted buddhist have something
that, quite frankly, I don´t. Call it serenity and equanimity,
call it enlightment, call it whatever; I would like to be as good
as them dealing with life and reality, that´s all. That´s why I´m
a buddhist; not because someone told me to belive there´s a
Nirvana, but rather because somewhere along the line I though
"dear chap, to be as compassionate and peaceful as that must be
grand; to what are they attributing their state?".

Best regards

Federico

On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Stefan Detrez
<stefan.detrez at gmail.com>wrote:

> I have no idea what proof can be produced for the Buddha's
Nirvana. I 
> took enlightenment as term, as it comes closer to 'awakening',
I might 
> as well have spoken about nirvana. I guess to be awakened or to
have 
> attained nirvana mean the same thing, but again, I'm not a
specialist. 
> Maybe being awakened has a similar meaning to being a
streamenterer: 
> one realises that something needs to be done about suffering.
>
> My intuition however is that the Buddha's state of being awoken
is an 
> important premise for followers to put faith in the fact that 
> following his Cure will ultimately lead to the end of
suffering. In 
> this sense I see his nirvana as a dogma. It is a necessary 
> prerequisite to become a Buddhist. If one doesn't accept for a
fact 
> that the Buddha's suffering was ended by his method, than there
doesn't seem to be much reason why one would follow it.
> But I guess the importance varies in the context of practicing
dharmic 
> or karmic buddhism. Doing good deeds doesn't require faith in
the 
> reality of the Buddha's Nirvana.
>
> I also don't think I'm mixing up dogma in a Buddhist setting
with its 
> Christian connotation. In the portions of the Pali canon I read
I've 
> never encountered an instance (excluding Mara's temptation)
that 
> questions his Nirvana. It seems his Nirvana is taken for
granted. I find that suspicious.
> One also takes refuge to the Buddha. How do we know he is the
right 
> example?
> What if ehipassiko leads to not seeing anything, would one be 
> considered as deluded?
>
> Stefan
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