[Buddha-l] 9. Attadiipaa Sutta (Joy Vriens)

[L.S. Cousins]

  On 11/05/2010 09:51, Dan Lusthaus wrote:
> You neglect to mention that several of the occurrences of the utterance
> "attadīpā" are associated with Sāvatthi, the capital of Kosala, suggesting
> he liked to say that when there (The Attadīpā sutta is situated there as
> well). So limited "contexts" -- yes.

Actually, I think the Attadīpasutta is the only one located in Sāvatthi.

> You then go on to account for what I would call (actually, I did call)
> *numerous* instances.
>
> In general English usage, according to my exposure to it, a "couple" means
> two, "few" means three or bit more than that, and "numerous" would be
> anything that is more than a few. Numerous is not synonymous with
> "ubiquitous."

Well, I am not sure if they speak English on the island on the other 
side of the flood; so perhaps we had better agree to disagree on the usage.


> But thank you for listing the instances.

Of course, I managed to leave one out: the (Ukka)celasutta (S V 163). 
This is the immediately following sutta to the Cundasutta and is located 
on the bank of the Ganges 'among the Vajjis' immediately after Sāriputta 
and Moggallāna have entered parinibbāna. Here too the reference to 
'having self as an island' is immediately followed by the explanation of 
it as equivalent to practising the four establishings of mindfulness.

> I agree that the various appearances of the phrase -- particularly when
> viewed synchronically -- tend to give the impression of a phrase scattered
> about by later redactors rather than a redundant Buddha.

What is striking is that, if we ignore the two verse occurrences which 
do not give us much context, nearly all the references relate to the 
last days of the Buddha and to the loss or imminent loss of important 
teachers: Sāriputta, Sāriputta and Moggallāna, and the Buddha himself. I 
don't find any problem with supposing that the Buddha might have 
repeated this several times in his last year to make the same point.

> That it struck the
> redactors as a noteworthy phrase deserving to be inserted on several (do you
> prefer that to "numerous"?) occasions suggests that an importance was
> attached to it early on. Since the Nibbana sutta is a later compilation (we
> seem to agree on this too), that may NOT be the original source for the
> quote. But who knows?
>

I would understand that the Mahāparinibbānasutta as we have it in Pali 
(or Sanskrit) is a compilation made before the full development of the 
legend of Asoka; so quite early. The compilation was made from a number 
of short suttas which were orally recited in a performative manner. Many 
of these short suttas are retained elsewhere in the extant versions of 
the Nikāyas. Others may have been lost.

Lance Cousins