[Buddha-l] 9. Attadiipaa Sutta (Joy Vriens)

[Erik Hoogcarspel]

Op 9-5-2010 8:08, Joy Vriens schreef:
> How to explain dhamma dipa? "The island of Truth" as some have
> translated ? Make Truth into an island? Or make an island for Truth?
> Does Truth really needs our help? Remember they are on the same level:
> atta dipa, dhamma dipa. What meaning/interpretation of dhamma when
> island is picked as the translation? The advantage of the translation
> of lamp, that it already has the idea of guidance built in it. A lamp
> guides us in the dark. It can guide us towards the glorious land of
> the great. What does an island do?
>
> Please save me from heresy.
>
> Joy
>    
What's wrong with heresy? Life without it would be terribly dull. I casn 
sympatize with Joy's brave attempts to introduce some logic into Pali, 
but language is not allways plain and clear. I remember that Richard 
accused me long time ago of getting at his goats. I think that when 
after 2000 years our discussion would have been digged up from the 
archives of the Buddha-l, a similar discussion would pop up about the 
function of goats in the exchange of ideas between the Netherlands and 
the USA in the 21st century. I think this would lead to some interesting 
abductions. Language is not logical, certainly not the idiomatic side of 
it. Perhaps a metafor as a dry spot of land in a river seems for us less 
meaningfull than for an Indian person in a time when crossing rivers 
used to be part of daily life and life was considered inherently 
dangerous. I think that there are more metafors of that kind in Indian 
literature of the time.

erik

ps
My friend, Rob Janssen has followed the discussion with interest and 
asked me to publish his reaction.

Dear discussants,

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that also in the 
commentary on the Mahåparinibbåna-sutta ( the Sumangalavilåsinii by 
Buddhaghosa) the explanation of diipa is given as 'island' and not as 
'light':

Atta-diipå ti mahåsamuddagataµ diipaµ viya attånaµ diipaµ patitthaµ 
katvå viharatha ' your self as an isle means: you should live having 
made your self into an island, a support (resting place)  like an island 
in the great ocean.

It is not likely that Buddhaghosa refers here to a light(house?) in the 
middle of the ocean.

Robert Janssen