[Buddha-l] Batchelor

[Jackhat1 at aol.com]

In a message dated 3/17/2010 2:34:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
joy.vriens at gmail.com writes:
 
> Is the assumption here that belief in God and the afterlife is  more
> optimistic than not believing?
>
> Not to  me.
>

That would depend on the way one sees or doesn't see God.  
===
And the way one sees life just ending.
=====
 
Joy: As for an afterlife, from a more mystical point of view I would  tend 
to see belief in
an afterlife, final judgement etc. as a sign of  someone who hasn't
experienced God or who has forgotten (divertissement),  if that's possible 
at
all. And in that case, according to Pascal, only  dukkha will follow. 
====
I read a good book by James Carse lately, The Religious Case  Against 
Belief. A quote from it, "Thinking starts when belief  ends.."  This stopping of 
thinking, of course,  isn't the mystical  experience mentioned below.
===
 
Joy: Beyond
mere language, what is the difference between a rather  mystical experience
of "God" (John of the Cross, François Malaval etc.) and  ultimate refuge as
in the often quoted :

'Oh, monks, there is an  unborn, unarisen, and unconditioned.  Were there
were not an unborn,  unarisen, and unconditioned, there would be no escape
for those born,  arisen and conditioned.  Because there is the unborn,
unarisen,  unconditioned, there is escape for those born, arisen,  and
conditioned.”
===
No difference to  me.


jack