[Buddha-l] Batchelor

[Joy Vriens]

Hi Jack,


> As for Pascal's wager clearly lacking intelligence, I  disagree.
> Generally, having an optimistic outlook on things rather than  a
> pessimistic one, makes for a happier person
> ==
> Is the assumption here that belief in God and the afterlife is more
> optimistic than not believing?
>
> Not to me.
>

That would depend on the way one sees or doesn't see God. As for an
afterlife, from a more mystical point of view I would tend to see belief in
an afterlife, final judgement etc. as a sign of someone who hasn't
experienced God or who has forgotten (divertissement), if that's possible at
all. And in that case, according to Pascal, only dukkha will follow. Beyond
mere language, what is the difference between a rather mystical experience
of "God" (John of the Cross, François Malaval etc.) and ultimate refuge as
in the often quoted :

'Oh, monks, there is an unborn, unarisen, and unconditioned.  Were there
were not an unborn, unarisen, and unconditioned, there would be no escape
for those born, arisen and conditioned.  Because there is the unborn,
unarisen, unconditioned, there is escape for those born, arisen, and
conditioned.”


I find both beliefs quite optimistic.


Joy


"God being thus hidden, any religion that does not say that God is hidden is
not true, and any religion which does not explain why does not instruct."
Pascal. The unborn, the unarisen and unconditioned are "hidden" in the born,
the arisen and conditioned. Hidden or not seen?