[Buddha-l] Vinaya Texts trans/ed. by Oldenberg

[buddhisti at aol.com]

All three baskets (sutra, vinaya, abhidharma) are supposed to be divulged and learn by everyone. How can we read the tripitaka without stumbling on them?
The misunderstanding about listening to (or reading) the vinaya, and listening to the formal vinaya recitation (including the confession) twice monthly, came from the rules of formal recitation itself (the latter) which insisted that people who have not received the precepts be removed from the audience.
During the Liturgy of Recitation of Bodhisattva Vows for laypeople, there's this portion:
<quote>  
Question: Why has the Sangha gathered? 
Answer: To recite the Bodhisattva precepts. 
Question: Have those who have not taken the precepts and those who are not pure left this assembly? 
Answer: In this assembly, there is no one who has not taken the precepts, and no one who is not pure. (If there are, they should be asked to leave and the monk in charge should say: "Those who have not received the precepts and those who are not pure have left.") 
<end quote>
Reading, or listening to, only the vinaya, does not commit any infraction. In fact, many Chinese masters, including Hsuan Hua of the City of Ten Thousands Buddhas and Yen P'ei, encouraged laypeople to learn the precepts.  
BTW, the Vinayas are online; anyone can have access:
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupid?key=olbp34638

Chinese and Vietnamese translations are all over the net too.
Minh Quang




-----Original Message-----
From: Richard P. Hayes <rhayes at unm.edu>
To: Buddhist discussion forum <buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 22, 2010 10:43 am
Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Vinaya Texts trans/ed. by Oldenberg


On Fri, 2010-01-22 at 22:30 +0800, Weng-Fai Wong wrote:
> The Mula-sarvastivadin Vinaya (T23 #1442 page 672):
 
 問曰在家俗侶頗得聞不。
 報言。得聞二藏謂論及經。
 毘奈耶教是出家軌式。俗不合聞。
 
 My poor translation:
 
 "Question: Can the laity listen (learn) the matters of monkhood?
  Answer: (They can) learn the two pitaka, namely the Abhidharma and Sutra.
          Vinaya applies to the behaviour of the Sangha. The laity cannot hear 
learn)."
We had this discussion about ten years ago, and I´m thinking it was
etermined then that there is no counterpart to that passage in the Pali
anon. It would be interesting to know that for sure.
I am curious about context. Is the passage cited above a rule? If so,
hich type? What are the consequences of violating it? I have heard that
he consequence for the layperson is that he/she is forbidden from
rdination as a result of having heard the vinaya. But I am wondering
hether this rule is connected specifically from the pratimoksha
eremony. Lay people are not allowed to attend that formal recitation of
he vinaya, but it does not follow that they are not allowed to study
he vinaya in other situations.
Is this rule recursive? That is, is it also against the
ula-sarvastivadin vinaya to discuss the Mula-sarvastivadin vinaya on
uddha-l? Perhaps even mentioning that the vinaya exists is forbidden.
erhaps even allowing oneself to wonder whether there is a vinaya, or
ver has been, is forbidden. Perhaps all curiosity of every kind on any
opic whatsoever is forbidden. What if it turns out that only digression
s allowed?

- 
ichard P. Hayes <rhayes at unm.edu>
niversity of New Mexico

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