[Buddha-l] Vinaya Texts trans/ed. by Oldenberg

[Richard P. Hayes]

On Fri, 2010-01-22 at 22:30 +0800, Weng-Fai Wong wrote:

> The Mula-sarvastivadin Vinaya (T23 #1442 page 672):
> 
> 問曰在家俗侶頗得聞不。
> 報言。得聞二藏謂論及經。
> 毘奈耶教是出家軌式。俗不合聞。
> 
> My poor translation:
> 
> "Question: Can the laity listen (learn) the matters of monkhood?
>  Answer: (They can) learn the two pitaka, namely the Abhidharma and Sutra.
>          Vinaya applies to the behaviour of the Sangha. The laity cannot hear (learn)."

We had this discussion about ten years ago, and I´m thinking it was
determined then that there is no counterpart to that passage in the Pali
canon. It would be interesting to know that for sure.

I am curious about context. Is the passage cited above a rule? If so,
which type? What are the consequences of violating it? I have heard that
the consequence for the layperson is that he/she is forbidden from
ordination as a result of having heard the vinaya. But I am wondering
whether this rule is connected specifically from the pratimoksha
ceremony. Lay people are not allowed to attend that formal recitation of
the vinaya, but it does not follow that they are not allowed to study
the vinaya in other situations.

Is this rule recursive? That is, is it also against the
Mula-sarvastivadin vinaya to discuss the Mula-sarvastivadin vinaya on
buddha-l? Perhaps even mentioning that the vinaya exists is forbidden.
Perhaps even allowing oneself to wonder whether there is a vinaya, or
ever has been, is forbidden. Perhaps all curiosity of every kind on any
topic whatsoever is forbidden. What if it turns out that only digression
is allowed?


-- 
Richard P. Hayes <rhayes at unm.edu>
University of New Mexico