[Buddha-l] Vitakka Vicara

[David Living]

I'm wondering if you had any thoughts concerning vicara and vitakka and their relation to the First Dhyana.

1) Is there some extra cultural meaning behind these two words especially vicara? Otherwise one gets the impression that so long as you are happy and concentrated, you can just discursively think your way into the First Dhyana. Is that a possibility?

2) If we are to believe that the First Dhyana is more than just a nice emotional/mental state how does that square with it belonging to a different "loka" or world/dimension altogether - the world of pure form? As far as my understanding goes, some people who claim to have reached this state say that it is definitely a totally different space to the sensory world. There are stories in the Pali Canon *****don't ask me where*****! that the Buddha used to test someone who claimed to have reached the dhyanas by clapping loudly behind them while they were meditating to see if they jumped. If they jumped they hadn't got it! Presumeably if they didn't jump they were either deaf or they were in a "different space".

Apologies if you've been into this before on your site but I just thought I'd ask around. I have my own ideas but I take a meditation class in Southend-on-Sea (near London UK) and I want to know how they square with other people's experience and understanding....I don't clap loudly behind my students when they are trying to meditate as no one, including myself claims to have reached the First Dhyana as of yet! 

Aryacitta / Dave Living 
Triratana Buddhists
old FWBO

 		 	   		  
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