[Buddha-l] MMK 25.09 (was: as Swami goes...)

[Richard Hayes]

On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:08 AM, Dan Lusthaus wrote:

> Glad to see Richard H. has found a few moments to share his thinking on 
> this.
> 
>> ya ājavaṃjavībhāva upādāya pratītya vā |
>> so 'pratītyānupādāya nirvāṇam upadiśyate || MMK_25,09
> 
>> The process of making something come and go in ontological or conceptual 
>> dependence is, when not in metaphysical or conceptual dependence, called 
>> nirvana.
> 
> Revision appreciated. Why use "ontological" at first, and then switch to 
> "metaphysical"?

Carelessness. I first used "metaphysical" but then changed it to "ontological," since ontology is more specific. I simply forgot to make the correction in both renderings.

> The example for the upādāya (prajñapti) is the pudgalavadins, who hold the 
> pudgala as the substrate for birth and death. [They consider the pudgala a 
> prajñapti.]

So does every Buddhist I know of. The notion of the person as a convenient designator (prajñapti) that is conditioned by grasping (upādāya) a complex state of affairs goes back at least as far as Milinda.

> Interesting revision (still altering "ontological" to "metaphysical"). How 
> does something come and go independent of conditions?

Forget the alteration. It doesn't really matter very much. Ontology is a branch of metaphysics. The question you ask can be countered with another question: "How does something come and go dependent on conditions?" If one has not forgotten all about chapter one of the MMK by the time one gets to this chapter under discussion, one purses one's lips and furrows one's brow.

> 
>> The new one by Katsura and Siderits is the best I have seen,
> 
> I haven't seen it yet. Is it in print?

Part of it is. The remainder is in press. Siderits, Mark and Katsura Shoryu. (2005). Mūlamadhyamakakārikā I–X. Journal of Indian and Tibetan Studies 9–10: 129–185. 

The remaining chapters are appearing in the same journal. I think chapters XI-XX have appeared by now, but I don't have the details of the volume number and pagination. The third installment, as I understand it, is in press, but even it may have appeared by now.

Richard