[Buddha-l] Re. karma and consequences

[Jayarava]

--- On Mon, 16/3/09, Robert Ellis <robertupeksa at talktalk.net> wrote:

> I previously gave some examples of karma not being
> accomplished: a good person getting cancer, a nasty dictator
> in happy retirement, and also a lie which does not
> necessarily lead to ascertainable bad results. To assert
> that in these kinds of examples karma must be being
> fulfilled even though we do not experience it is dogmatic.
> It is unfalsifiable.

These are not good examples of karma/viapaka. 

Firstly you are attempting to see links to specific events which is not the Buddhist theory of karma as I understand it, or if it is could you site sources. The link is between cetanā and vedanā, not between cetanā and cancer.

Secondly you demonstrate the problem with hypothetical examples. The "good person" does not exist. We have all been motivated by a mixture of positive and negative intentions. If someone gets cancer you characterise it as a bad thing. It might not be. I know of at least one person for whom it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. The hypothetical just doesn't reflect lived experience. We seldom make up examples that contradict the point we are trying to make.

Thirdly the best you can say in these cases is that you cannot see the link between their intentions and the vedanā we assume them to experience. Which is hardly surprising because you have made these people up. They aren't real and no one lives a life so simple. They don't falsify the theory so much as the method.

Back to the drawing board as far as this is concerned.

Cheers
Jayarava