[Buddha-l] Orders and Ordinations (was women & , er, religion)

[Franz Metcalf]

Elihu et al.,

Thank you for what you called a "slight correction." I have to admit  
it's more than slight.

Yes, of course the blurring between "priest" and "monk" was already  
present in the Japanese tradition centuries before Maezumi Roshi. By  
contrast, the separation of "priestly" and "lay" tracks is new and (in  
my view) crucially important in the development of Western Zen  
Buddhism. Maezumi was very aware of this distinction and very open to  
letting his dharma heirs work this issue out--both for themselves and  
for their own dharma heirs.

Elihu is surely also right that even the most monastic of the priests  
Maezumi ordained were still not even coming close to following Vinaya  
regulations. Still, I got the sense (and here I am being very "human  
science-y," and cannot support my position except through my own  
recollections of my experiences) that there were some disciples,  
including some dharma heirs, who thought of themselves and were  
regarded as something like monks, rather than more this-worldly  
priests. But then this sort of status was time-limited, much as it is  
in Thai culture. One would never think of a teen-aged Thai boy as a  
monk once he came back to society and got a job and started looking  
for a girlfriend. Perhaps taking some extra vows would indeed help  
matters in regard to Western Zen "monks."

Thanks for the help,

Franz