[Buddha-l] women & , er, religion

[jkirk]

No, jkirk did not write that--Richard wrote starting with "we the undersigned". 
Pay better attention, folks!  

What I did write was the question about 'what is a mitra', and thanks for the explanation, but the diff. between being sworn in or ordained and being a mere mitra still is rather unclear.

Joanna 

-----Original Message-----
From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Jayarava
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:28 AM
To: Buddhist discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] women & , er, religion

--- On Wed, 22/7/09, jkirk <jkirk at spro.net> wrote:

> We, the undersigned, must strenuously disagree with Jayarava here. As 
> we understand Buddhist ordination, the FWBO does not ordain women at 
> all.

Well. Don't strain yourself my friend. Sangharakshita has always called it an ordination, and I think only a pedantic Buddhist would take issue with that usage. Dīkṣā is what they call it in India (where Dayamati was ordained, on the famous 'Cowboys and Indians' retreat) but not when they are speaking English. I'm not entirely sure how the Hindi dictionary defines it, but Monier Williams makes a mockery of the Coyote's suggestion! Dīkṣā is what Ambedkar called his conversion ceremony, but that was something entirely different.

> Back to the WBO--well,  if no ordination only diikshaa, then in the 
> WBO what kind of office is a 'mitra' and how does it differ from being 
> an initiand?

I must say that it's a strange experience to have someone on the net asking questions about the FWBO without overt hostility... it's kind of confusing.

A mitra ceremony is very simple. During a puja a person makes offerings (flower, candle, incense) at a shrine representing the three jewels and bows three times. Sometimes they'll have done it lots of times already, but this is kind of formal. What does one call that? Conversion? After that we consider that they have declared themselves to be a Buddhist, and that they have decided to practice in the FWBO. 

There used to be a lot of criteria for becoming a mitra which made it quite difficult, but a couple of years ago they changed it so that you just have to want to do it. I suspect that we will begin to make demands on our mitras in the area of ethics, meditation and study again in the long run.

Cheers
Jayarava



      

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