[Buddha-l] women & , er, religion

[Jayarava]

--- On Mon, 20/7/09, jkirk <jkirk at spro.net> wrote:

> Things not much better in Buddhism around the world. Only
> in China or Taiwan and in some Tibetan lineages, can women be
> fully ordained nuns, (is that right about Tibetans? 

Why would any woman want to be fully ordained under the conditions of the Buddhist vinaya anyway? Personally I think the "fully" ordained thing is a crock - but I would wouldn't I? ;-) Why has upasampadā come to be translated as "fully ordained" in English? The 'fully' word seems to used to reinforce the high status of being a bhikṣu - it seems to all be about the social standing of the person. A woman obtaining the upasampadā merely confirms her low status in the eyes of the Buddhist society, she accepts laws which rate her lower than the lowest man. Why would she do that in this day and age?

Jayarava