[Buddha-l] reincarnation versus rebirth

[jkirk]

It's usually unsatisfactory to insist on literal meanings of
words. Words have nuances of meaning. Aside from translations
from the suttas, there also are translations of 20th c monk
commentators who made it clear that rebirth did not mean simply
transmigration of something (jiva or whatever). Buddhadasa
Bhikkhu is a prime example. See his _Heartwood of the Bodhi
Tree_.  As I recall, he said that we are born and reborn
continually, until we get the deficiencies under control. Thus,
we might experience nirvana briefly during meditation, then later
fall back into samsara, i.e., be reborn again in the samsaric
state. 
He clearly did not take what is often called transmigration
literally--and I'm not sure that the Buddha did either. IMHO,
Gotama relied on the notion of literal transmigration  to future
lives as a pedagogical device, to get the attention of people
mired in greed, aversion, and delusion. 
In any case, nobody can "prove" what the Buddha "really" meant,
so we can have fun arguing about it.  

Joanna
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Some Buddhists insist on a clear-cut distinction between the
words "rebirth" and "reincarnation" - and when doing so they seem
to assume that the Buddha was a native speaker of modern English
(or possibly
French): "The Buddha taught rebirth not reincarnation" or words
to that effect. This makes about as much sense to me as claiming
that the Buddha was a Democrat, not a Republican.

To be born is to be incarnated, no? Ergo, to be reborn is to be
reincarnated.

I think the distinction might arise from different meanings given
to these words by western (possibly French) esotericists in the
18th century or even earlier. But I don't understand what that
distinction is, or why some Buddhists have decided to adopt that
distinction as a "Buddhist teaching" of some sort?

Alternatively it is sometimes claimed that the Buddha taught
rebirth, but Hindus teach reincarnation - which makes even less
sense unless someone can cite Sanskrit equivalent terms for these
two English words - but even that would not explain away the fact
that the words "rebirth" 
and "reincarnate" have exactly the same literal meanings.

Curt