[Buddha-l] Re: buddha-l Digest, Vol 39,
Issue 13 Re: 1. Re: The course of Nature (John Willemsens)
Robert Leverant
roblev at sonic.net
Thu May 29 09:30:06 MDT 2008
Re: 1. Re: The course of Nature (John Willemsens)
Dear John,
I went to your site which is wonderful. Reading the view and the approach, I
was reminded of the Dao De Jing; particularly the interactivity --
communication both ways in terms of influence, the exchange, and through
this dialogue which is mental and energetic and physical, a mutual and
potentially beneficent shaping/influencing of the Dao and a sentient being.
This is done within nature/naturalness. This theme is explored and described
in the commentaries on the text: A PHILISOPHICAL TRANSLATION, DAO DE JING,
Making This Life Significant. Balentine, 2003. It features and is based on
the recently discovered bamboo texts. Trans. And commentary by Roger T. Ames
and David L. Hall. Check it out.
Robert
on 5/28/08 9:09 AM, buddha-l-request at mailman.swcp.com at
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: The course of Nature (John Willemsens)
> 2. RE: Realism, anti-realism and Buddhism (Macleod, Nik)
> 3. RE: Ahh, fame (Bshmr at aol.com)
> 4. Re: RE: Ahh, fame (Richard Hayes)
> 5. Sharon Stone and Karma (Weng-Fai Wong)
> 6. Seeking Assistance Identifying Quotes (alx437 at charter.net)
> 7. Virtuous nature and animal minds--from New Scientist Print
> Edition (jkirk)
> 8. Re: Realism, anti-realism and Buddhism (Dan Lusthaus)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:05:37 +0200
> From: "John Willemsens" <advaya at euronet.nl>
> Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] The course of Nature
> To: "Buddhist discussion forum" <buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com>
> Message-ID: <00d401c8bfc8$3f7e8600$4101a8c0 at willemsex5l6mv>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250";
> reply-type=response
>
>>>
>>> Dear Joanna,
>>> Thank you very much for your remarks.
>>> I shall look at them very carefully with more time.
>>> I would however like to comment in the meantime that what we say
>>> is that human beings _experience as progress_ that which accords
>>> with the overall course of Nature.
>>> I.o.w. not that the overall course of Nature is progress -
>>> overall existence is as such quite indifferent.
>>> But allow me to revert.
>>> John Willemsens.
>>> ===========================
>>
>>> John,
>>> Thanks for clarifying--I got a distinct impression from reading
>>> your website that the "experience as progress" (a relative)
>>> qualification was absent. In any case, I wonder what your support for
>>> this interpretation
>>> of humans experiencing Nature as progress might be. There's abundant
>>> evidence in media of various sorts -- good, bad,
>>> or indifferent in quality-- of people who contrarily do not
>>> "experience" the "overall course of Nature" as progressive at
>>> all, but instead as destructive and teleologically negative,
>>> especially today in conditions of global warming, cyclones,
>>> tornados, earthquakes, oceans rising, meteorites, and so on.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> JK
>>>
>>
>> Dear Joanna,
>> Might I ask you to please have a look at our Q&A page in the meantime :-)
>> Thank you.
>> John Willemsens.
>> http://www.euronet.nl/~advaya/qanda.htm (Q&A page)
>>
>
> Dear Joanna,
> I hope that you have been able to read some of the entries on our Q&A page.
> You might have gathered that our position is that, if you look closely, all
> those unpleasantnesses you mention do not pertain to overall existence but
> are the result of mistaken views and mismanagement. When we say how man
> experiences the neutral course of Nature we of course mean man unencumbered
> by these contingent shortcomings and mistakes that impair his vision and
> understanding - the reference standard is overall existence and not failing
> mankind. "Not the human manifestation of life (...) is the measure of things
> in space and time, but the whole of infinite interdependent reality itself,
> which, hardly affected, if at all, by the negligible impact of mankind's
> doings on the overall scheme of things, will continue to become exactly as
> it, by definition, must."
> But this is not the place for proselytizing. :-)
> Thank you,
> John Willemsens.
> http://www.euronet.nl/~advaya/index.htm
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:14:34 +0100
> From: "Macleod, Nik" <Nik.Macleod at proquest.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: [Buddha-l] Realism, anti-realism and Buddhism
> To: "'Buddhist discussion forum'" <buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com>
> Message-ID:
> <F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E5C824A31E0 at CBGPQMAILBX01V.proque.st>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Greetings all
>
>> Dan Lusthaus wrote:
>> I refer people to Paul Griffiths' review of Schmithausen's
>> Alaya-vijnana book (I don't have the citation on hand --
>> perhaps PEW; anyone know the reference?)
>
> GRIFFITHS, P.J., 1989. ¯Alayavijñ¯ana: On the Origin and the Early Development
> of a Central Concept of Yog¯ac¯ara Philosophy, 2 V. Journal of the
> International Association of Buddhist Studies, 12(1), pp. 170-177.
>
> The PEW review is by Gareth Sparham - PEW 43:2 (Apr 1993) pp 334-6
> Also reviewed by Jacques May, IndoIranian Journal 33:3 (July 1990) pp 199-201
> and Andre Bareau, Revue de l'histoire des religions 106 (1989) pp 213-4
>
> Best regards
> Nik Macleod
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:37:53 EDT
> From: Bshmr at aol.com
> Subject: [Buddha-l] RE: Ahh, fame
> To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com
> Message-ID: <bec.22b932d2.356dbd11 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Dear Richard, the Younger, and other Denizens of buudha-l,
>
>> rhayes at unm.edu: Did anyone manage to find the site that Richard Basham was
> referring to n his post? The only link I could find in his message was to a
> cooking class.
>>
>
> The discussion which quotes one of buddha-l's distinguished Learneds [
> _http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=525317#post525317_
> (http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=525317#post525317) ]
> can be read by the public. Again, only the quote and citation seem remarkable
> -- which excused omitting the URL earlier -- and while a wealth of
> information, the dynamic is unbalanced. (-:
>
>
>> rhayes at unm.edu: As I recall, he said something about someone pontificating.
> It's hard for me to imagine anyone from buddha-l pontificating. Must be a
> case of mistaken identity.
>>
>
> Be more careful of what you say in front of Dan. [ I am merely paraphrasing
> Lusthaus. ]
>
>
> Richard Basham
>
>
>
> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 22:55:16 -0600
> From: Richard Hayes <rhayes at unm.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] RE: Ahh, fame
> To: Buddhist discussion forum <buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com>
> Message-ID: <1211950516.12832.7.camel at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 15:37 -0400, Bshmr at aol.com wrote:
>
>> The discussion which quotes one of buddha-l's distinguished Learneds [
>> _http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=525317#post525317_
>> (http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=525317#post525317)
>> ]
>> can be read by the public. Again, only the quote and citation seem remarkable
>> -- which excused omitting the URL earlier -- and while a wealth of
>> information, the dynamic is unbalanced. (-:
>
> Thanks for sending the URL anyway. It's nice to see one of our
> co-denizens out there doing battle with the forces of ignorance. It was
> not at all an even match, as you observed. Contests between literati and
> ignorami rarely are.
>
>> Be more careful of what you say in front of Dan.
>
> That's good advice. Dan and I both enjoy a good bluster, and we both
> have the strange habit of parodying the styles of the people we used to
> find most obnoxious (before we cultivated the perfection of patience).
> Irony tends to go unrecognized in e-mail messages for some reason, by
> almost everyone but Peavler.
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