[Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read

[jkirk]

Last sentence in Nelson link:
"Finally, some Buddhists reject all violence as an impediment to nibbana and
promote the peace process. They argue for the deontological status of
Buddhist precepts and the emotional and karmic consequences of all action:
violence no matter how righteous always produces more violence and warriors
no matter how virtuous suffer the consequences of war. Thus, according to
the Buddha, "Conquest begets enmity; the conquered live in misery; the
peaceful live happily having renounced conquest and defeat" (Dhammapada,
verse 201)." 

This comes just as the case of Arjuna's and the Pandavas' final denouement
appeared on another list, with the scenario that they had to go to Hell
first, to work off the results of their warring and killing against the
Kauravas, whereas the Kauravas went to Heaven due to results of their good
deeds before the Mahabharata war---but in time both groups would be reborn
in the opposite places--Pandavas in heaven and Kauravas in Hell. So, aside
from Buddhism, a major Hindu epic decided that the bad karma of making war
cannot be avoided.

It reminds me of the scroll I bought at the Tu Hieu monastery in Hue,
Vietnam, that says (as they told me since I don't know Vietnamese), "a
peaceful heart is the best medicine."

But besides the morals of these stories, it might also be worth saying that,
as Buddhism historically was supported most effectively and generously by
royals, and it was royals who made wars, the royals and the sangha were
embedded in the institution of patronage, and so inevitably got dragged into
it, on occasion. 
But how about the story in the Pali texts where the Buddha makes peace
between two hill kingdoms that were about to go to war? (Sorry, don't have
the citation right now.)

Joanna
======================

-----Original Message-----
From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com
[mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Franz Metcalf
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:44 PM
To: Buddhist discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read

Gang,

I should have been more careful in my offhand comments in my last post. Curt
and Joanna are right that Buddhists, as seemingly all religionists
throughout space and time, have most often been more concerned with nation
and tribe than with that which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to
knowledge, which leads to peace, to higher knowledge, to full awakening, to
Nibbāna. What I really meant to say was that the *dharma* did not care for
nations. This I still think is largely true.

So I disagree, Curt, with your assertion that there is no "evidence of any
Buddhist teachers, including Old Shakyamuni, ever encouraging political
leaders to abandon the principle of national self-defense."  
I admit you've left some room for common ground, as what you did was deny a
negative. So let me rephrase: I *do* think there's reason to say the Buddha
taught the non-importance of nations or at least the defense of nations.
Might you agree to that? If not, I'll add we've discussed this at some
length here on buddha-l. If I get time I'll look for the thread. But for
now, here are two links to a very convincing (at least to me) paper on the
notion of Buddhism and war, by James A. Stroble at the University of Hawaii.
Just as I write this, neither link works. Grrrr. But perhaps they will work
for you:

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~stroble/BUDDWAR.HTM
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~stroble/Buddhism_and_War.html

And here's a link I just found (and have not read), to Eric Sean Nelson's
syllabus on Buddhism and War:

http://www.aarweb.org/syllabus/syllabi/n/nelson/nelson-20040823/buddhismandw
ar.htm

What you you think?

Franz

===========================================
Franz Metcalf, PhD.  323.467.3267  http://mind2mind.net Buddhist Author,
Teacher, Scholar, Husband, Dad, Beginner


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