From jkirk at spro.net Sun Mar 2 14:39:37 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sun Mar 2 14:39:32 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Being in Love Message-ID: <000001c87cad$ea05e360$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> In the Buddha's time, if someone wanted to get rid of a woman (wife, widow, concubine, female peon), he/they just kicked her out on the street and that was it. In many parts of India this tendency continues up to the present day, but the middle class is making moves on it. Joanna ================================================== HYPERLINK "http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/19/asia/divorce.php"http://www.iht.com/ articles/2008/02/19/asia/divorce.php With India's new affluence comes the divorce generation By Anand Giridharadas Published: February 19, 2008 ""The great Indian family is definitely under threat," said Shobhaa D?, the author of "Spouse: The Truth about Marriage" and one of India's most widely read social chroniclers. D?, herself divorced and remarried years ago, described the new ethos as "unthinkable to an earlier generation." No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM From horowitz at chass.utoronto.ca Tue Mar 4 08:17:32 2008 From: horowitz at chass.utoronto.ca (Gad Horowitz) Date: Tue Mar 4 08:16:06 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: {Buddha-l] Being in Love ... "& its only end is loss" References: <4F540FCD-5740-41F0-AB28-40F0A077E68B@mind2mind.net> Message-ID: <003101c87e0a$dee6cea0$7dee6480@chass> Why am I receiving nothing from the list? Is everything all right? I am suffering withdrawal symptoms. I guess it's actually possible to be addicted to blah blah about the Truth. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franz Metcalf" To: "Buddhist discussion forum" Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: {Buddha-l] Being in Love ... "& its only end is loss" > Robert et al., > > Thank you Robert Leverant for the moving and terrible words of the > Buddha Judah Halevi or Emanuel of Rome. There's no hiding from his > wisdom. And yet, I cannot help myself. Aware of this I intuit why > others cry out, as Martin Luther may have done, "Hier stehe ich, ich > kann nichts anders. Gott helfe mir. Amen!" > > Let me in turn add the words of another Buddha, Kohelet the Preacher, > also known as Ecclesiastes, as found in the Tanakh. > > Franz > > ===== > > The truth of impermanence haunted me, > and I soured on life. > the suffering of life overwhelmed me, > and I sought refuge in depression. > > But I could not escape the truth of what I had seen: > all our doing is in quest of sanctuary from impermanence. > We seek to think our way to certainty; > to buy our way to security; > to pleasure ourselves to eternity. > But nothing brings us the permanence we crave. > Thought is only opinion; > wealth is only a burden; > pleasure is only a prelude to pain. > and in this there is no joy. > We desire not what we have but what does not exist: > permanence, an eternity of self in a world designed by selfishness. > It is not wisdom, wealth, or pleasure that brings us pain, > but the mistaking of these for something they are not. > Our quest for permanence is the root of our suffering. > (The Book of Kohelet, 2:17, in the translation of Rami Shapiro) > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From curt at cola.iges.org Tue Mar 4 08:23:32 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Tue Mar 4 08:24:15 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: {Buddha-l] Being in Love ... "& its only end is loss" In-Reply-To: <003101c87e0a$dee6cea0$7dee6480@chass> References: <4F540FCD-5740-41F0-AB28-40F0A077E68B@mind2mind.net> <003101c87e0a$dee6cea0$7dee6480@chass> Message-ID: <47CD6974.3020900@cola.iges.org> My name is Curt, and I am a Buddha-Laholic. Gad Horowitz wrote: > Why am I receiving nothing from the list? Is everything all right? I am > suffering withdrawal symptoms. I guess it's actually possible to be > addicted to blah blah about the Truth. > > > From C.Rocha at uws.edu.au Mon Mar 3 20:10:53 2008 From: C.Rocha at uws.edu.au (Cristina Rocha) Date: Tue Mar 4 08:50:34 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] CFP: Buddhism in Australia: Tradition in Change Message-ID: <3239A306F7C8F24693698F633C37BE54A4D6FF@VALLE.AD.UWS.EDU.AU> Dear colleagues, I would like to remind you that the deadline for abstracts for the edited volume 'Buddhism in Australia: Tradition in Change' is March 15th. We strongly encourage monks, nuns, teachers, and scholars to contribute a paper. Please find the call for papers below. Best wishes, Cristina Rocha ================================= Call for Papers: Buddhism in Australia: Tradition in Change Buddhism in Australia is changing. In 2006 Buddhists accounted for 2.1 per cent of Australia?s population, almost doubling the 1996 figures. Buddhism in Australia: Tradition in Change is an edited collection that seeks to give a more rounded profile of this phenomenon. The book endeavours to address recent changes and adaptations that Buddhism has undergone in Australia, and to give a voice to the experience of Australian Buddhists. The book will weave together two main types of papers: 1. The experiences of Buddhist teachers, monks and nuns 2. Research articles on Buddhism in Australia In this call for papers we invite Buddhist teachers, monks and nuns of any Buddhist lineage who are living and teaching in Australia to write a 250-word abstract of their experience of practicing Buddhism in Australia. This could take many different forms, including: * An autobiographical account of your own journey of Buddhism in Australia (such as how and why you became teachers, whether you studied overseas and the cultural differences involved, how and why you returned/came to teach in Australia, etc) * Reflections or anecdotes of the challenges in adapting Buddhist practices to Australian culture. * Considerations on how teaching Buddhism in Australia is different from other places you have studied/taught. * Thoughts on how your own cultural values influence your teaching and practice of Buddhism. * Your vision on the future on Buddhism in Australia. * A combination of any of these elements. We also invite scholars to submit a 250-word abstract of new work, or recently published articles in the field. Buddhism in Australia: Tradition in Change is being edited by Dr Cristina Rocha, managing editor of the Journal of Global Buddhism and author of Zen in Brazil: The Quest for Cosmopolitan Modernity (Hawaii University Press, 2006); and Dr Michelle Barker (nee Spuler), author of Developments in Australian Buddhism: Facets of the Diamond (Curzon Press, 2000). Both editors have spent many years involved in Buddhist practice with local groups. The deadline for abstracts is 15 March 2008. Please submit contributions to michelle@futureinitiatives.com.au or c.rocha@uws.edu.au . Successful contributors will be asked to then provide a 2500-3000-word paper (teachers, monks and nuns) and a 5000-word paper (scholars) by September 2008. Dr. Cristina Rocha ARC Postdoctoral Fellow Centre for Cultural Research University of Western Sydney Tel: (+61 2) 9685 9535 Fax: (+61 2) 9685 9610 Mob: 0410 324971 Author of "Zen in Brazil: The Quest for Cosmopolitan Modernity", Hawaii University Press, 2006. Managing Editor: Journal of Global Buddhism www.globalbuddhism.org http://www.uws.edu.au/research/researchcentres/ccr/ccrpeople/rocha No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1309 - Release Date: 3/03/2008 6:50 PM From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 4 14:19:49 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 4 14:19:43 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka Message-ID: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> X-posting this lovely reminiscence, with author's permission. Next move--see how many vols of Tezuka's Life of Buddha are on the shelves at nearby B&N. Joanna K. ===================================================== I drop in on temples when I am looking for the Vietnamese books of an area. Often they sell contemporary literature. More than once I have walked away with an armload of Buddhist outreach texts the monk who has dealt with me thinks I should take back with me wherever I came from. Every time I have been studying Buddha longer than the monk in question. I think it was my uncle the Myrmansk sailor, the one who isn't sure the whole gay thing has been such a good idea for men who like sex with men, who left a copy of Zen Flesh, Zen Bones at the house when I was child. Those stories are like the Jesus of Mark, the one who says all the odd lifelike things, and indeed the Paul Reps classic includes a few approving nods from the bhikku for "the lilies of the field" and so forth. I went on to settle on Dharma Bums as my favorite Kerouac, and to get to know Gary Snyder, the "Japhy Ryder" Zen adept of that novel. I have intense and complex feelings about another American roshi, Peter Matthiessen, who went to my college twenty years before me and really was what I am routinely accused of being, a clandestine serving CIA operations officer who used international literary modernism as a cover. His books gave me pleasure, his life gave me trouble. One of Snyder's heroes, and mine, liked to point out that the specific individuals who planned the bombing of Pearl Harbor were advanced Zen Buddhists. Kenneth Rexroth would deliver these bon mots in the Bay Area, where they were cute. Richard Pryor, working nearby in Oakland, more insightfully observed that whoever planned that attack had evidently never been out of California to the rest of America, where there are white men who frighten the white men. My relatives in Maryland and Michigan were never very clear on why we fought Hitler and Stalin, but they understand that we stopped bombing Japan just because we ran out of bombs. Rexroth spoke to that point when he would go on to say that Zen is Buddhism for white people. It is a lot like Mark. You can learn a great deal of what there is to learn from reading. And you won't have a clue when your Asian mother-in-law hits 65 and starts spending all day at the temple. If you didn't grow up with it, how do you pick up the abundance of legend and practice that abounds around Buddhism, the way the Church Fathers and Augustine and the calendar of the Saints and the Inferno and Paradise Lost and Fox's Martyrs seep in around the lived experience of Christianity in Europe and the United States? Anyone who had just read Mark would miss nearly everything in a Renaissance painting or a chapel in Las Vegas. He could go read those texts I just listed, but he might miss the take-away, what the Christians who have never heard of those books know from them. There's an equivalent list for Buddhism that would also fail. Osamu Tezuka addressed himself to this problem. He was the grand old man of manga in Japan, where his crowning work was an eight-volume life of Buddha, now translated into English and knocking out everyone who reads comics. The only point of this ditty is to encourage you to go read them. I did, this week, convalescent on the couch, and now I have learned and can remember all the players, all the stories, that have been so opaque and fleeting to me. Tezuka inserts himself in the narrative about one panel a book, a sympathetic character if you like Saigon 54-75 writers, with a beret, making silly jokes. He's an Asian guy who sat down to figure it all out, like one of those incredibly erudite and plainspoken essays on philosophy and world literature that appear in Vietnamese diaspora literary magazines. So, I'm saying, if your Vietnamese studies require you to get a grip on Buddhism, and you like Vietnamese writers, you would do well to give Tezuka's Buddha a try. If you find it difficult to read comics, don't be ashamed, they have conventions like anything else. You can learn them. Scott McCloud's astonishing Understanding Comics lays them out clearly. Tezuka's work is built of exactly the conventions McCloud describes, especially the dilation and contraction of time and space through agreed symbols and the way panels work together on a page. Another convention at play in Tezuka's Buddha is the one familiar worldwide through the Belgian Tintin. The character himself is especially cartoonish, drawn in outline, while the backgrounds are detailed realism. The effect on the reader is to identify with Tintin and look at what he's seeing. In Tezuka, the Buddha is like that while he's young, but as he grows old he become more like a realist drawing of a statue in the background of a Tintin comic. You go from identification with this other self to contemplation of him. In my favorite Asian Studies book on buddhism, Liberating Intimacy, Peter Hershock argues that much of the Buddhist tradition has lost the social virtuosity of the Buddha, a Freud-like point that gaining some distance on desire allows free play of the personality in the world. That's a Zen idea, and one that animates Tezuka's tale both in the drawing as I describe it and in the wonderful sense of bustling life in India, like Kim and the lama on the trunk road before Kipling's plot kicks in. Tezuka is an intellectual. But he's written a life of Buddha that helps people like us grasp the wilder side of his religion. Dan Duffy Editor, Viet Nam Literature Project URL www.vietnamlit.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1310 - Release Date: 3/4/2008 8:35 AM From franz at mind2mind.net Tue Mar 4 15:18:09 2008 From: franz at mind2mind.net (Franz Metcalf) Date: Tue Mar 4 15:18:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <9264B971-624B-4D97-A189-E0D2C84873D7@mind2mind.net> Joanna et al., Thanks for the reminder of Tezuka's series. I have the first two volumes and I enjoyed them a great deal. I'm not a comics reader, but, as Duffy says, Tezuka brings you into that world with ease. Back at the height of my flickering fame, I had some back-and-forth with Vertical, the publishers (though the series is now published by HarperCollins), and even blurbed the books. I really did enjoy them. Now I reckon I'll have to get the rest of the series. Perhaps I'll read them to my daughter (though there's plenty of violence). Great countercultural jibes from Duffy, too. Franz On Mar 4, 2008, at 1:19 PM, jkirk wrote: > > X-posting this lovely reminiscence, with author's permission. Next > move--see > how many vols of Tezuka's Life of Buddha are on the shelves at > nearby B&N. > Joanna K. > ===================================================== > > > I drop in on temples when I am looking for the Vietnamese books of > an area. > Often they sell contemporary literature. More than once I have > walked away > with an armload of Buddhist outreach texts the monk who has dealt > with me > thinks I should take back with me wherever I came from. > > Every time I have been studying Buddha longer than the monk in > question. > I think it was my uncle the Myrmansk sailor, the one who isn't sure > the > whole gay thing has been such a good idea for men who like sex with > men, who > left a copy of Zen Flesh, Zen Bones at the house when I was child. > > Those stories are like the Jesus of Mark, the one who says all the odd > lifelike things, and indeed the Paul Reps classic includes a few > approving > nods from the bhikku for "the lilies of the field" and so forth. I > went on > to settle on Dharma Bums as my favorite Kerouac, and to get to know > Gary > Snyder, the "Japhy Ryder" Zen adept of that novel. > > I have intense and complex feelings about another American roshi, > Peter > Matthiessen, who went to my college twenty years before me and > really was > what I am routinely accused of being, a clandestine serving CIA > operations > officer who used international literary modernism as a cover. His > books > gave me pleasure, his life gave me trouble. > > One of Snyder's heroes, and mine, liked to point out that the specific > individuals who planned the bombing of Pearl Harbor were advanced Zen > Buddhists. Kenneth Rexroth would deliver these bon mots in the Bay > Area, > where they were cute. > > Richard Pryor, working nearby in Oakland, more insightfully observed > that > whoever planned that attack had evidently never been out of > California to > the rest of America, where there are white men who frighten the > white men. > My relatives in Maryland and Michigan were never very clear on why > we fought > Hitler and Stalin, but they understand that we stopped bombing Japan > just > because we ran out of bombs. > > Rexroth spoke to that point when he would go on to say that Zen is > Buddhism > for white people. It is a lot like Mark. You can learn a great > deal of > what there is to learn from reading. And you won't have a clue when > your > Asian mother-in-law hits 65 and starts spending all day at the temple. > > If you didn't grow up with it, how do you pick up the abundance of > legend > and practice that abounds around Buddhism, the way the Church > Fathers and > Augustine and the calendar of the Saints and the Inferno and > Paradise Lost > and Fox's Martyrs seep in around the lived experience of > Christianity in > Europe and the United States? > > Anyone who had just read Mark would miss nearly everything in a > Renaissance > painting or a chapel in Las Vegas. He could go read those texts I > just > listed, but he might miss the take-away, what the Christians who > have never > heard of those books know from them. There's an equivalent list for > Buddhism that would also fail. > > Osamu Tezuka addressed himself to this problem. He was the grand > old man of > manga in Japan, where his crowning work was an eight-volume life of > Buddha, > now translated into English and knocking out everyone who reads > comics. > > The only point of this ditty is to encourage you to go read them. I > did, > this week, convalescent on the couch, and now I have learned and can > remember all the players, all the stories, that have been so opaque > and > fleeting to me. > > Tezuka inserts himself in the narrative about one panel a book, a > sympathetic character if you like Saigon 54-75 writers, with a > beret, making > silly jokes. He's an Asian guy who sat down to figure it all out, > like one > of those incredibly erudite and plainspoken essays on philosophy and > world > literature that appear in Vietnamese diaspora literary magazines. > > So, I'm saying, if your Vietnamese studies require you to get a grip > on > Buddhism, and you like Vietnamese writers, you would do well to give > Tezuka's Buddha a try. > > If you find it difficult to read comics, don't be ashamed, they have > conventions like anything else. You can learn them. Scott McCloud's > astonishing Understanding Comics lays them out clearly. Tezuka's > work is > built of exactly the conventions McCloud describes, especially the > dilation > and contraction of time and space through agreed symbols and the way > panels > work together on a page. > > Another convention at play in Tezuka's Buddha is the one familiar > worldwide > through the Belgian Tintin. The character himself is especially > cartoonish, > drawn in outline, while the backgrounds are detailed realism. The > effect on > the reader is to identify with Tintin and look at what he's seeing. > > In Tezuka, the Buddha is like that while he's young, but as he grows > old he > become more like a realist drawing of a statue in the background of > a Tintin > comic. You go from identification with this other self to > contemplation of > him. > > In my favorite Asian Studies book on buddhism, Liberating Intimacy, > Peter > Hershock argues that much of the Buddhist tradition has lost the > social > virtuosity of the Buddha, a Freud-like point that gaining some > distance on > desire allows free play of the personality in the world. > > That's a Zen idea, and one that animates Tezuka's tale both in the > drawing > as I describe it and in the wonderful sense of bustling life in > India, like > Kim and the lama on the trunk road before Kipling's plot kicks in. > Tezuka is > an intellectual. But he's written a life of Buddha that helps > people like > us grasp the wilder side of his religion. > > Dan Duffy > Editor, Viet Nam Literature Project > URL www.vietnamlit.org > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1310 - Release Date: > 3/4/2008 > 8:35 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > =========================================== Franz Metcalf, PhD. 323.467.3267 http://mind2mind.net Buddhist Author, Teacher, Scholar, Husband, Dad, Beginner From rebreedon at ucdavis.edu Tue Mar 4 15:48:48 2008 From: rebreedon at ucdavis.edu (Richard Breedon) Date: Tue Mar 4 15:48:57 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: Hello Joanna, That was a remarkable essay by Dan Duffy. I was given the first volume of the series some years ago for my birthday by a Jewish architect friend of mine who likes manga and knows I like Buddhism. We now own the entire series in hardback. My twin boys, now 12, have read them through several times. Amusingly, they put their hands over the parts of the pages that depict nudity :). Richard B. On Mar 4, 2008, at 1:19 PM, jkirk wrote: > > X-posting this lovely reminiscence, with author's permission. Next > move--see > how many vols of Tezuka's Life of Buddha are on the shelves at > nearby B&N. > Joanna K. > ===================================================== From jmp at peavler.org Tue Mar 4 15:54:15 2008 From: jmp at peavler.org (Jim Peavler) Date: Tue Mar 4 15:56:17 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <9264B971-624B-4D97-A189-E0D2C84873D7@mind2mind.net> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <9264B971-624B-4D97-A189-E0D2C84873D7@mind2mind.net> Message-ID: <77A54508-50CB-48BB-B1AB-09A58C86EC71@peavler.org> We on Buddha-hex entertained a short-lived discussion of the Tezuka Buddha series (8 vols in all, and each takes a while to digest properly). I love the work and said so at the time (to the consternation of some of our minions). I even bought the set for the library at the Albuquerque Zen Center. I may be the only person there who has read them so far. But -- however inaccurate the depiction of Buddhist doctrine may be at times, or how much someone disapproves of the depiction of this or that character from Buddha's life -- one leaves the series with a deeper feel for mediaeval (or pre-iaeval) India, the caste system, and what Buddha meant when he said that all beings suffer. On Mar 4, 2008, at 3:18 PM, Franz Metcalf wrote: > Joanna et al., > > Thanks for the reminder of Tezuka's series. I have the first two > volumes and I enjoyed them a great deal. I'm not a comics reader, > but, as Duffy says, Tezuka brings you into that world with ease. > Back at the height of my flickering fame, I had some back-and-forth > with Vertical, the publishers (though the series is now published > by HarperCollins), and even blurbed the books. I really did enjoy > them. Now I reckon I'll have to get the rest of the series. Perhaps > I'll read them to my daughter (though there's plenty of violence). > > Great countercultural jibes from Duffy, too. > > Franz > > On Mar 4, 2008, at 1:19 PM, jkirk wrote: > >> >> X-posting this lovely reminiscence, with author's permission. Next >> move--see >> how many vols of Tezuka's Life of Buddha are on the shelves at >> nearby B&N. >> Joanna K. >> ===================================================== >> >> >> I drop in on temples when I am looking for the Vietnamese books of >> an area. >> Often they sell contemporary literature. More than once I have >> walked away >> with an armload of Buddhist outreach texts the monk who has dealt >> with me >> thinks I should take back with me wherever I came from. >> >> Every time I have been studying Buddha longer than the monk in >> question. >> I think it was my uncle the Myrmansk sailor, the one who isn't >> sure the >> whole gay thing has been such a good idea for men who like sex >> with men, who >> left a copy of Zen Flesh, Zen Bones at the house when I was child. >> >> Those stories are like the Jesus of Mark, the one who says all the >> odd >> lifelike things, and indeed the Paul Reps classic includes a few >> approving >> nods from the bhikku for "the lilies of the field" and so forth. >> I went on >> to settle on Dharma Bums as my favorite Kerouac, and to get to >> know Gary >> Snyder, the "Japhy Ryder" Zen adept of that novel. >> >> I have intense and complex feelings about another American roshi, >> Peter >> Matthiessen, who went to my college twenty years before me and >> really was >> what I am routinely accused of being, a clandestine serving CIA >> operations >> officer who used international literary modernism as a cover. His >> books >> gave me pleasure, his life gave me trouble. >> >> One of Snyder's heroes, and mine, liked to point out that the >> specific >> individuals who planned the bombing of Pearl Harbor were advanced Zen >> Buddhists. Kenneth Rexroth would deliver these bon mots in the >> Bay Area, >> where they were cute. >> >> Richard Pryor, working nearby in Oakland, more insightfully >> observed that >> whoever planned that attack had evidently never been out of >> California to >> the rest of America, where there are white men who frighten the >> white men. >> My relatives in Maryland and Michigan were never very clear on why >> we fought >> Hitler and Stalin, but they understand that we stopped bombing >> Japan just >> because we ran out of bombs. >> >> Rexroth spoke to that point when he would go on to say that Zen is >> Buddhism >> for white people. It is a lot like Mark. You can learn a great >> deal of >> what there is to learn from reading. And you won't have a clue >> when your >> Asian mother-in-law hits 65 and starts spending all day at the >> temple. >> >> If you didn't grow up with it, how do you pick up the abundance of >> legend >> and practice that abounds around Buddhism, the way the Church >> Fathers and >> Augustine and the calendar of the Saints and the Inferno and >> Paradise Lost >> and Fox's Martyrs seep in around the lived experience of >> Christianity in >> Europe and the United States? >> >> Anyone who had just read Mark would miss nearly everything in a >> Renaissance >> painting or a chapel in Las Vegas. He could go read those texts I >> just >> listed, but he might miss the take-away, what the Christians who >> have never >> heard of those books know from them. There's an equivalent list for >> Buddhism that would also fail. >> >> Osamu Tezuka addressed himself to this problem. He was the grand >> old man of >> manga in Japan, where his crowning work was an eight-volume life >> of Buddha, >> now translated into English and knocking out everyone who reads >> comics. >> >> The only point of this ditty is to encourage you to go read them. >> I did, >> this week, convalescent on the couch, and now I have learned and can >> remember all the players, all the stories, that have been so >> opaque and >> fleeting to me. >> >> Tezuka inserts himself in the narrative about one panel a book, a >> sympathetic character if you like Saigon 54-75 writers, with a >> beret, making >> silly jokes. He's an Asian guy who sat down to figure it all out, >> like one >> of those incredibly erudite and plainspoken essays on philosophy >> and world >> literature that appear in Vietnamese diaspora literary magazines. >> >> So, I'm saying, if your Vietnamese studies require you to get a >> grip on >> Buddhism, and you like Vietnamese writers, you would do well to give >> Tezuka's Buddha a try. >> >> If you find it difficult to read comics, don't be ashamed, they have >> conventions like anything else. You can learn them. Scott McCloud's >> astonishing Understanding Comics lays them out clearly. Tezuka's >> work is >> built of exactly the conventions McCloud describes, especially the >> dilation >> and contraction of time and space through agreed symbols and the >> way panels >> work together on a page. >> >> Another convention at play in Tezuka's Buddha is the one familiar >> worldwide >> through the Belgian Tintin. The character himself is especially >> cartoonish, >> drawn in outline, while the backgrounds are detailed realism. The >> effect on >> the reader is to identify with Tintin and look at what he's seeing. >> >> In Tezuka, the Buddha is like that while he's young, but as he >> grows old he >> become more like a realist drawing of a statue in the background >> of a Tintin >> comic. You go from identification with this other self to >> contemplation of >> him. >> >> In my favorite Asian Studies book on buddhism, Liberating >> Intimacy, Peter >> Hershock argues that much of the Buddhist tradition has lost the >> social >> virtuosity of the Buddha, a Freud-like point that gaining some >> distance on >> desire allows free play of the personality in the world. >> >> That's a Zen idea, and one that animates Tezuka's tale both in the >> drawing >> as I describe it and in the wonderful sense of bustling life in >> India, like >> Kim and the lama on the trunk road before Kipling's plot kicks in. >> Tezuka is >> an intellectual. But he's written a life of Buddha that helps >> people like >> us grasp the wilder side of his religion. >> >> Dan Duffy >> Editor, Viet Nam Literature Project >> URL www.vietnamlit.org >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1310 - Release Date: >> 3/4/2008 >> 8:35 AM >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> buddha-l mailing list >> buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com >> http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l >> > > =========================================== > Franz Metcalf, PhD. 323.467.3267 http://mind2mind.net > Buddhist Author, Teacher, Scholar, Husband, Dad, Beginner > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > Jim Peavler jmp@peavler.org -------------- next part -------------- From shian at kmspks.org Tue Mar 4 18:59:22 2008 From: shian at kmspks.org ([DPD Web] Shen Shi'an) Date: Tue Mar 4 18:59:30 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <393a1099bca5d85d89f9784b97567fcc3f561a46@localhost> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <393a1099bca5d85d89f9784b97567fcc3f561a46@localhost> Message-ID: <179F65D5F8DDA444910D688753F4157901F538D3@kmsexsvr01.temple.kmspks.org> To share... A negative review of Tezuka's 'Buddha' series: http://moonpointer.com/index.php?itemid=618 A positive review of Scott McCloud's 'Understanding Comics': http://moonpointer.com/index.php?itemid=1925 -----Original Message----- From: Franz Metcalf [mailto:franz@mind2mind.net] Sent: Wednesday, 05 March, 2008 6:18 AM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka Joanna et al., Thanks for the reminder of Tezuka's series. I have the first two volumes and I enjoyed them a great deal. I'm not a comics reader, but, as Duffy says, Tezuka brings you into that world with ease. Back at the height of my flickering fame, I had some back-and-forth with Vertical, the publishers (though the series is now published by HarperCollins), and even blurbed the books. I really did enjoy them. Now I reckon I'll have to get the rest of the series. Perhaps I'll read them to my daughter (though there's plenty of violence). Great countercultural jibes from Duffy, too. Franz On Mar 4, 2008, at 1:19 PM, jkirk wrote: > From jmp at peavler.org Wed Mar 5 08:50:49 2008 From: jmp at peavler.org (Jim Peavler) Date: Wed Mar 5 08:52:47 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <179F65D5F8DDA444910D688753F4157901F538D3@kmsexsvr01.temple.kmspks.org> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <393a1099bca5d85d89f9784b97567fcc3f561a46@localhost> <179F65D5F8DDA444910D688753F4157901F538D3@kmsexsvr01.temple.kmspks.org> Message-ID: <540DD373-3A9C-4662-9B6E-DDEAF52009FA@peavler.org> On Mar 4, 2008, at 6:59 PM, [DPD Web] Shen Shi'an wrote: > To share... > > A negative review of Tezuka's 'Buddha' series: > http://moonpointer.com/index.php?itemid=618 It seems a little naive to me to expect a manga to be "literally" accurace in every detail of each character and event from as complex a story as the complete life of the Buddha (particularly when there are about 1000 "literal" versions of the stories. A work of art (and that is what Tezuka' Buddha series is) has to be accomplished within its own context and form. Some liberty with detail might be essential from time to time. I hated the (original) movie of "All the Kings Men" based on the novel by Robert Penn Warren. I later had the opportunity to talk about it with the author himself and complained about how awfully they had mangled his movie. He said that he thought they had done a pretty good job of shortening a rather long and detailed novel into a fairly coherent movie, and he reminded me that the maker of a movie has a completely different set of constraints and requirements from those of a novelist. The maker of a single, unified story of the Buddha's life, and the creator of a graphic version to boot, has a completely different of constraints and requirements from those of the original authors/ commentators on the Buddhas life. I would not complain too much that Tezuka mangad the story a bit in the interests of telling an interesting and engaging story in a graphical format. > > A positive review of Scott McCloud's 'Understanding Comics': > http://moonpointer.com/index.php?itemid=1925 Yes! This is an excellent book, and it would be to any one's benefit, who has not read manga or graphic litrature to read this first. You might become a bit more flexible about details of Tezuka's rendition of the life of the Buddha. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Franz Metcalf [mailto:franz@mind2mind.net] > Sent: Wednesday, 05 March, 2008 6:18 AM > To: Buddhist discussion forum > Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka > > Joanna et al., > > Thanks for the reminder of Tezuka's series. I have the first two > volumes and I enjoyed them a great deal. I'm not a comics reader, but, > as Duffy says, Tezuka brings you into that world with ease. Back at > the height of my flickering fame, I had some back-and-forth with > Vertical, the publishers (though the series is now published by > HarperCollins), and even blurbed the books. I really did enjoy them. > Now I reckon I'll have to get the rest of the series. Perhaps I'll > read them to my daughter (though there's plenty of violence). > > Great countercultural jibes from Duffy, too. > > Franz > > On Mar 4, 2008, at 1:19 PM, jkirk wrote: > >> > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > Jim Peavler jmp@peavler.org -------------- next part -------------- From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 5 09:29:00 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 5 09:29:44 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47CECA4C.1040302@cola.iges.org> What opinions do people have about other English language sources on the life of the Buddha. Any favorites? Anything in the category "to be avoided at all costs"? Curt Steinmetz From roblev at sonic.net Wed Mar 5 09:55:39 2008 From: roblev at sonic.net (Robert Leverant) Date: Wed Mar 5 11:17:59 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Impermanence Message-ID: I came across this quote from H.H. The Dalai Lama from a public talk in the U.S. several years ago, perhaps one in Los Angeles or the Bay Area that I had attended. The source of this quote I didn't write down. "All things are transient," concluded His Holiness suddenly, and there came a great silence. He rocked back and forth on his cushion. "Things change moment to moment, things are impermanent. We worry over the past, we anticipate the future, and we barely perceive a shred of the passing moment. But all of us of every faith tradition possess the possibility of pure light, is that not so? The question of who we are is very much open." From jmp at peavler.org Wed Mar 5 11:45:36 2008 From: jmp at peavler.org (Jim Peavler) Date: Wed Mar 5 11:47:34 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <47CECA4C.1040302@cola.iges.org> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47CECA4C.1040302@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: I like Thich Naht Hahn's "Long Path, White Cloud" (If that is the correct name of it -- I am way up here in the mountains, fighting snow, far from my books). On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Curt Steinmetz wrote: > What opinions do people have about other English language sources > on the life of the Buddha. Any favorites? Anything in the category > "to be avoided at all costs"? > Curt Steinmetz > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > Jim Peavler jmp@peavler.org -------------- next part -------------- From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 5 11:49:13 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 5 11:49:01 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Impermanence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01c87ef1$9b6eb100$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> On Behalf Of Robert Leverant Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:56 AM I came across this quote from H.H. The Dalai Lama from a public talk in the U.S. several years ago, perhaps one in Los Angeles or the Bay Area that I had attended. The source of this quote I didn't write down. "All things are transient," concluded His Holiness suddenly, and there came a great silence. He rocked back and forth on his cushion. "Things change moment to moment, things are impermanent. We worry over the past, we anticipate the future, and we barely perceive a shred of the passing moment. But all of us of every faith tradition possess the possibility of pure light, is that not so? The question of who we are is very much open." ==================== Doesn't it get more open the less we cogitate on past and future? And the more time we spend meditating? Problem is--once a householder always a householder? Right now I'm embroiled in a resistance effort in my state to stop them from allowing 2 nuclear enterprises to pollute this state even more than it is already polluted. This requires attending to the future, so to speak, but the motive or intention is to spare the population and the environment from more radioactive consequences affecting especially pregnant women and children. With the way things are escalating, little time for meditating on impermanence. Radioactive contamination is indeed impermanent, but on a vaster scale than other samsaric aspects. But HHDL's thought is comforting. Joanna K. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 5 11:59:42 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 5 12:00:24 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47CECA4C.1040302@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47CEED9E.9020403@cola.iges.org> I read that when it first came out. I really liked the content - but I just can't stand his writing style, which to my ear sounds like he is channeling Fred Rogers. Curt Jim Peavler wrote: > I like Thich Naht Hahn's "Long Path, White Cloud" (If that is the > correct name of it -- I am way up here in the mountains, fighting > snow, far from my books). > > > On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Curt Steinmetz wrote: > >> What opinions do people have about other English language sources on >> the life of the Buddha. Any favorites? Anything in the category "to >> be avoided at all costs"? >> Curt Steinmetz >> _______________________________________________ >> buddha-l mailing list >> buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com >> http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l >> > > Jim Peavler > jmp@peavler.org > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From franz at mind2mind.net Wed Mar 5 12:38:11 2008 From: franz at mind2mind.net (Franz Metcalf) Date: Wed Mar 5 12:38:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <47CEED9E.9020403@cola.iges.org> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47CECA4C.1040302@cola.iges.org> <47CEED9E.9020403@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <40A657C5-4273-4AA7-963A-DE36326C6932@mind2mind.net> Gang, Curt wrote, about _Old Path White Clouds_, > I read that when it first came out. I really liked the content - but > I just can't stand his writing style, which to my ear sounds like he > is channeling Fred Rogers. Might be tough to read such language for a whole (and long) book, I suppose. Still, I think Fred Rogers was a real bodhisattva. Here's his Wikipedia entry, for those who don't know him (probably everyone outside the US): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers I didn't know he was a minister. That goes to show the gentle nature of his spirituality. An incarnation of Avalokite?vara? Franz =========================================== Franz Metcalf, PhD. 323.467.3267 http://mind2mind.net Buddhist Author, Teacher, Scholar, Husband, Dad, Beginner From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 5 12:57:53 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 5 12:58:30 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <40A657C5-4273-4AA7-963A-DE36326C6932@mind2mind.net> References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47CECA4C.1040302@cola.iges.org> <47CEED9E.9020403@cola.iges.org> <40A657C5-4273-4AA7-963A-DE36326C6932@mind2mind.net> Message-ID: <47CEFB41.7000206@cola.iges.org> As in most things I am very inconsistent in my literary criticism - there are even some "Complete Idiots" books that I have enjoyed - Linda Johnsen's "Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism" for example. Speaking of which, there is actually a "Complete Idiot's Guide to the Life of the Buddha" - anyone read that or know anything about it's author, Victoria Urubshurow? Here are two other candidates that I am actually more interested in: Hajime Nakamura's "Gotama Buddha: A Biography Based on the Most Reliable Texts", and Bhikkhu Nanamoli's "The Life of the Buddha: According to the Pali Canon". Curt Franz Metcalf wrote: > Gang, > > Curt wrote, about _Old Path White Clouds_, > >> I read that when it first came out. I really liked the content - but >> I just can't stand his writing style, which to my ear sounds like he >> is channeling Fred Rogers. > > Might be tough to read such language for a whole (and long) book, I > suppose. Still, I think Fred Rogers was a real bodhisattva. Here's his > Wikipedia entry, for those who don't know him (probably everyone > outside the US): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers > > I didn't know he was a minister. That goes to show the gentle nature > of his spirituality. An incarnation of Avalokite?vara? > > Franz > > =========================================== > Franz Metcalf, PhD. 323.467.3267 http://mind2mind.net > Buddhist Author, Teacher, Scholar, Husband, Dad, Beginner > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jmp at peavler.org Wed Mar 5 14:02:50 2008 From: jmp at peavler.org (Jim Peavler) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:04:44 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Impermanence In-Reply-To: <001b01c87ef1$9b6eb100$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <001b01c87ef1$9b6eb100$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <4D112042-CB7D-4463-9F57-24FCA02360EF@peavler.org> On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:49 AM, jkirk wrote: > > Right now I'm embroiled in a resistance effort in my state to stop > them from > allowing 2 nuclear enterprises to pollute this state even more than > it is > already polluted. This requires attending to the future, so to > speak, but > the motive or intention is to spare the population and the > environment from > more radioactive consequences affecting especially pregnant women and > children. With the way things are escalating, little time for > meditating on > impermanence. > > Radioactive contamination is indeed impermanent, but on a vaster > scale than > other samsaric aspects. But HHDL's thought is comforting. > Joanna K. I appreciate the sentiments here, but would point out that nuclear power is very likely one of the safest sources of power we have available to us in quantity right now. We may be fearing the wrong things. We are getting some idea finally that even old carbon dioxide (in enough quantity) may be threatening the whole earth. Many people fear nuclear waste to the point that, rather than allowing it to be moved and buried where is will be out of our concern for a few million years at least, they allow it to be buried in stainless-steel tubes at the bottom of heavy-water swimming pools right near their own home towns. Also, few people seem to know that coal ash contains high concentrations of radio active material that is more dangerous (even in tiny amounts) than that that comes out of modern reactors-- and we dispose of it in open landfills where it is free to leach into our water and blow into our wind so we can drink it and suck it into our lungs! I would rather live next door to a nuclear reactor than to a coal- fired plant or downwind from a landfill. But what I meditate on has little to do with either. We all know that we are supposed to be careful about what we pray for in case our prayers are answered. I would add that we should be careful what we fear because we are very likely to be fearing the wrong things while being destroyed by things we haven't realized yet. Buddhist content: I try to meditate on some inexplicable thing such as emptiness or death. Or what is the difference between emptiness an death? Damned if I know. > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > Jim Peavler jmp@peavler.org -------------- next part -------------- From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 5 14:33:08 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 5 14:32:55 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: References: <000301c87e3d$7ad6c720$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47CECA4C.1040302@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <002c01c87f08$81536010$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Me too--it's _Old Path, White Clouds_ Parallax Press, 1991 The author cites all his canonical sources, both Pali canon and Taisho. I hope this bit doesn't start up another discussion about "was the Buddha a real person, a historical figure, etc...reading the legend is elevating and edifying (if I may revert to Victorian terms, here :), and comforting. Joanna ====================================================== I like Thich Naht Hahn's "Long Path, White Cloud" (If that is the correct name of it -- I am way up here in the mountains, fighting snow, far from my books). On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Curt Steinmetz wrote: > What opinions do people have about other English language sources on > the life of the Buddha. Any favorites? Anything in the category "to be > avoided at all costs"? > Curt Steinmetz > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > Jim Peavler jmp@peavler.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 5 15:01:32 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 5 15:01:19 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] FW: Lets get wasted Message-ID: <003901c87f0c$78f84210$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Since Jim posted his views on nuclear power on the list, I wish to post an opposing view. Joanna ========================= We in Idaho are already wasted-------------- INL (the nuke research lab and waste disposal outfit in eastern Idaho) has done nada about digging up the stuff that is leaching into the Snake River aquifer. Lots of Idahoans now know about it--there's been plenty of publicity in newspapers etc--but the eastern ID people reject any idea for taking INL to task, they want more of the same over there--which right now is a French-owned nuke company AREVA that is trying to escalate tax shelter bidding for locations in this country. They want to build a uranium enrichment plant. Such plants create more rad-waste. We can't even shelter what we have already and we are also taking it in from other states and even countries abroad. WE are one such location. Recently the Leg House Taxation com voted out a bill to give this 2 bill dollar plant AREVA a property tax cap of 400 mil, plus they don't have to pay sales taxes on what they buy for construction etc. meanwhile our roads are already gone to pot(holes) and ruts, the Leg keeps on denying more money for education, they won't fund pre-school, they do things that even prevent the state from getting fed money for infrastructure. The level of delusional insanity in this state is incomprehensible. AREVA claims they are creating 250 new jobs over there (near INL)--but those in the know guarantee that the hi-paying job holders will come in from outside Idaho, maybe even some from la belle france. Our redneck libertarian guv, Butch Otter--loves nukes and loves adding to Idaho's rad-waste while nothing is done about what's over there already. He is backed by all the other greedy Republicans who control this state. Your view, Jim, of nuclear power is OK until you start figuring out what to do with the rad-waste. To date, NEV has refused to open Yucca Mountain, and the New Mexico salt caves storage place WIPP won't take a lot of our stuff, either. Thus, at this time there is no method for safely storing the waste from nuclear power enterprises of all kinds, including low level stuff like hospital use gowns, gloves, etc--on and on. Yet, despite the fact that great science hasn't come up with a method to safely store the results of nuke power, the industry has gotten all kinds of loan guarantees from Congress and they are gearing up to build a bunch of them all over the country. This means that the nice swimming pools you refer to will continue to store the dangerous rad-waste, making more targets for terrorists as well. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Peavler [mailto:jmp@peavler.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:15 PM To: jkirk Subject: Lets get wasted As an old Idaho resident, I too, have a fear of the pollution on the state by nuclear waste. The real problem that I know about is that there are tons of low-level nuclear waste buried in rusting 55 gallon steel drums all along the basalt beds of the Bonneville Plateau that have been leeching into the Snake River for at least 30 years that I about. Yet the citizens of Idaho either don't know about it or don't think it is a problem. Have you heard about it? Jim Peavler jmp@peavler.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 5 15:43:13 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 5 15:43:55 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] FW: Lets get wasted In-Reply-To: <003901c87f0c$78f84210$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <003901c87f0c$78f84210$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47CF2201.7000009@cola.iges.org> I'll chime in with Joanna. Those great bodhisattvas in the insurance industry are the experts in risk evaluation. No private insurance will touch a nuclear power plant. I think we should defer to their wisdom and compassion for all beings and adopt a similar attitude. Curt jkirk wrote: > Since Jim posted his views on nuclear power on the list, I wish to post an > opposing view. > Joanna > ========================= > > From ralf.steckel at online.ms Wed Mar 5 16:19:24 2008 From: ralf.steckel at online.ms (Ralf Steckel) Date: Wed Mar 5 16:19:30 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka Message-ID: <693720022@web.de> Hi Curt, i enjoy 'Buddhism for Dummies'. It may be completly inadequate for the academic world, but i find it helpful as a starter for a western lay buddhist. Ralf Steckel > What opinions do people have about other English language sources on the > life of the Buddha. Any favorites? Anything in the category "to be > avoided at all costs"? > Curt Steinmetz From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 5 16:48:09 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 5 16:47:57 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] FW: Lets get wasted In-Reply-To: <47CF2201.7000009@cola.iges.org> References: <003901c87f0c$78f84210$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47CF2201.7000009@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <002401c87f1b$5dfff840$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Hey Curt--U R right about the insurance cos. This is why the industry was able to talk the Congressinto loan guarantees!! Their lobby is highly paid and all over the place. Execrable......... Joanna -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Curt Steinmetz Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:43 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] FW: Lets get wasted I'll chime in with Joanna. Those great bodhisattvas in the insurance industry are the experts in risk evaluation. No private insurance will touch a nuclear power plant. I think we should defer to their wisdom and compassion for all beings and adopt a similar attitude. Curt jkirk wrote: > Since Jim posted his views on nuclear power on the list, I wish to > post an opposing view. > Joanna > ========================= > > _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1313 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 9:50 AM From gouin.me at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 23:54:12 2008 From: gouin.me at gmail.com (Margaret Gouin) Date: Wed Mar 5 23:54:17 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Impermanence In-Reply-To: <4D112042-CB7D-4463-9F57-24FCA02360EF@peavler.org> References: <001b01c87ef1$9b6eb100$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <4D112042-CB7D-4463-9F57-24FCA02360EF@peavler.org> Message-ID: 2008/3/5 Jim Peavler : > > We all know that we are supposed to be careful about what we pray for > in case our prayers are answered. I would add that we should be > careful what we fear because we are very likely to be fearing the > wrong things while being destroyed by things we haven't realized yet. > > Indeed. Biofuels may be one of the greatest threats to the planet yet discovered, as cereal production is diverted from feeding people to feeding cars. Perhaps the issue is not the type of energy so much as the amount we're using--i.e. far too much!--and how we're using it. Buddhist content: My understanding is not that we mustn't think about the future, but that we mustn't obsess about it to the exclusion of being aware of the present, and that we should always be aware that the future may not come (impermanence). I think responsible social action has a place in Buddhism--in my Buddhism, anyway--but it has to be motivated by compassion, not anger. Difficult. Margaret Gouin PhD Candidate Centre for Buddhist Studies University of Bristol (UK) From stefandetrez at hotmail.com Thu Mar 6 02:07:20 2008 From: stefandetrez at hotmail.com (Stefan Detrez) Date: Thu Mar 6 02:07:24 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] To the moderator In-Reply-To: <001b01c87ef1$9b6eb100$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <001b01c87ef1$9b6eb100$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: Dear moderator, my post on 'Abuddhism' didn't get posted. Could you tell me why? If it doesn't meet the forum's requirements, I'll make it more palatable. Thank you, Stefan Detrez _________________________________________________________________ Een gelukkig nieuwjaar vanwege Windows Live...Download het nu gratis! http://get.live.com From jehms at xs4all.nl Thu Mar 6 02:52:54 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Thu Mar 6 02:53:45 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] FW: Lets get wasted Message-ID: <17158.194.109.68.115.1204797174.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Op Do, 6 maart, 2008 00:48, schreef jkirk: > Hey Curt--U R right about the insurance cos. This is why the industry was > able to talk the Congressinto loan guarantees!! Their lobby is highly paid > and all over the place. Execrable......... > Joanna > Often the discussion is solely about the physical hazards and not about the ones that are socially induced, sloppy or corrupt officials and mafia involvement. The good news is: there are alternatives, see http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/business/06solar.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th erik From jkirk at spro.net Thu Mar 6 11:35:19 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Thu Mar 6 11:35:10 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo; Womankind in Spirituality Message-ID: <004e01c87fb8$d490d270$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> X-POSTED-- Never heard of this nun--sounds like some kind of progress. But 12 years in a....... tub?? Joanna ============================== H-ASIA March 6, 2008 A small step for Tenzin Palmo, a Greap Leap for Womankind in Spirituality: Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo enthronement announcement ************************************************************************ From: joan stanley-baker This Tibetan Buddhist tradition used to have women priestesses up till the fourteenth century, I believe when their authority was slowly removed shred by shred till they are not even given literacy in the recent centuries but used only to serve tea I am happy to bring this triumph to the list. It has been a very long struggle, for this English Buddhist nun who sat for 12 years in a tub high up in the Himalayas... to arrive at the honoured place given her here... What she seeks is women's rights in spiritual practice and attainment, and slowly, step by tiny step she is getting there. Check her website http://www.gatsal.org/ Here just to share a soft hurrahhh... An email contact is dongyu gatsal Joan Joan Stanley-Baker MLitt DPhil Oxon Emeritus Professor, Tainan National University of the Arts #15, Lane 6 DaHeng Road,Yangmingshan, Shilin, Taipei 11191 ROC T 02 2861 6873 F 02 2861-5595 C 0928370357 E gaeapanda@gmail.com http://www.artouch.com/space/ http://61.219.169.5/joan/en_main.htm No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1315 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 9:07 AM From jkirk at spro.net Thu Mar 6 11:39:03 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Thu Mar 6 11:38:54 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Summer school in Germany, anyone? Message-ID: <004f01c87fb9$5a5e5cb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> X-posted by your inveterate x-posterlady JK ===================================== H-ASIA March 6, 2008 International Summer School Hamburg: Buddhism into the 21st Century, University of Hamburg 07/28 - 08/01/2008 ************************************************************************ From: H-Net Announcements International Summer School Hamburg: Buddhism into the 21st Century 07/28 - 08/01/2008 Location: Germany Summer Program Date: 2008-07-28 Date Submitted: 2008-02-28 Announcement ID: 161213 The Center for Buddhist Studies at the University of Hamburg would like to bring the following event to your attention, which may be of interest to some of your students and students of your university in general. The International Summer School 2008: Buddhism into the 21st Century (28.07.-01.08.2008) is a one-week course at Hamburg University (Germany) explicitly designed for students from all areas of study without any prior expertise in Buddhist Studies. Apart from introducing approaches to the study of Buddhism, it offers topics from religion and politics in Tibet, Buddhist art, neuropsychological perspectives and creativity. You are most welcome to spread this announcement to your department, other departments of your university or to those who are interested in international exchange. At our website www.summerschool-buddhism.de you will find further information concerning the program, lecturers, and registration. Feel free to contact us anytime, should you have further questions or inquiries. Please send a note if you would like to receive our flyer and poster in print. Sincerely, Michael Zimmermann (Professor for Indian Buddhism, Director of the Center for Buddhist Studies) Center for Buddhist Studies (http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de ) Asien-Afrika-Institut Universit?t Hamburg Edmund-Siemers-Allee 1, Hauptgeb?ude D-20146 Hamburg, Germany Tel.: +49-40-42838-3384 Fax: +49-40-42838-6944 Email: summerschool.buddhism@uni-hamburg.de Visit the website at http://www.summerschool-buddhism.de No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1315 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 9:07 AM From jmf55 at cornell.edu Thu Mar 6 11:58:46 2008 From: jmf55 at cornell.edu (Jessica Marie Falcone) Date: Thu Mar 6 12:31:57 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo Message-ID: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> :) Vicki Mackenzie wrote a book about Tenzin Palmo's many years in ... a cave. It must have been a mistranslation of some kind. The book is: Cave in the Snow: Tenzin Palmo's Quest for Enlightenment. Cheers, Jessica X-POSTED-- Never heard of this nun--sounds like some kind of progress. But 12 years in a....... tub?? Joanna ============================== From jkirk at spro.net Thu Mar 6 12:42:19 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Thu Mar 6 12:42:04 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo In-Reply-To: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> References: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <000601c87fc2$30a4f880$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Well thank heavens for that :) JK ---------------------- :) Vicki Mackenzie wrote a book about Tenzin Palmo's many years in ... a cave. It must have been a mistranslation of some kind. The book is: Cave in the Snow: Tenzin Palmo's Quest for Enlightenment. Cheers, Jessica -------------------------------- X-POSTED-- Never heard of this nun--sounds like some kind of progress. But 12 years in a....... tub?? Joanna ============================== _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1315 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 9:07 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1315 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 9:07 AM From marshallarts at bigpond.com Thu Mar 6 16:09:34 2008 From: marshallarts at bigpond.com (Kate Marshall) Date: Thu Mar 6 16:09:46 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo References: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <000d01c87fdf$24704070$0200000a@katies> > :) > Vicki Mackenzie wrote a book about Tenzin Palmo's many years in ... a > cave. It must have been a mistranslation of some kind. > The book is: > Cave in the Snow: Tenzin Palmo's Quest for Enlightenment. > Cheers, > Jessica Yes, definitely a cave. Actually, to me, the x-post was somewhat misleading in general. Depending on how it is read, it could give the impression that Tenzin Palmo entered the cave as a protest against the treatment of nuns by their male counterparts. This is not the case. She went into retreat to assist with her own enlightenment. Also starting the nunnery in Tibet wasn't her idea. Tenzin Palmo was asked a number of times by male Buddhists to do this before she agreed to do so. This was an issue dear to her in any case and she became the figurehead for and driving force behind this reform. However, any 'struggle' she had was due to the logistics of setting up such an organisation and Centre. It didn't come from the male Buddhist community. In fact, it seems to be giving every support and encouragement. The above comments aren't made to belittle Tenzin Palmo's efforts and achievements in any way. Just trying to clear up any potential misreading of the original x-post. Having said all that, it's been a few years since I read 'Cave in the Snow'. If any of the above is incorrect, please do not hesitate to say so. Thanks! Regards Kate From gouin.me at gmail.com Fri Mar 7 02:10:32 2008 From: gouin.me at gmail.com (Margaret Gouin) Date: Fri Mar 7 02:10:38 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo; Womankind in Spirituality In-Reply-To: <004e01c87fb8$d490d270$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <004e01c87fb8$d490d270$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: The 'enthronement' being referred to is apparently the giving of the title 'Jetsunma' (Venerable Master) to Tenzin Palmo: see http://www.drukpa.org/news/2007/071124_JetsunmaTenzinPalmo.html As someone else has already noted on the list, Tenzin Palmo was the subject of Vicki MacKenzie's biography 'A Cave in the Snow'. She has also produced a book of her own--transcriptions from various Dharma talks--'Reflections on a Mountain Lake'. In 1994 she gained some media prominence by reducing the Dalai Lama to tears at a seminar on Western practitioners of Dharma, by her impassioned pleading for more support for monastics in the West. She is, I understand, one of the most highly respected (by Tibetans) Western-born Tibetan Buddhist monastics alive, largely because of her commitment to her practice and also to her guru. She is working to restore the togden-ma lineage (female yogins) of the Drukpa Kagyu lineage and to educate Tibetan Buddhist nuns, via her monastery at Dongyu Gatsal. A truly remarkable woman, by any standards at all. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:35 PM, jkirk wrote: > X-POSTED-- > Never heard of this nun--sounds like some kind of progress. > But 12 years in a....... tub?? > Joanna > ============================== > H-ASIA > March 6, 2008 > A small step for Tenzin Palmo, a Greap Leap for Womankind in Spirituality: > Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo enthronement announcement > ************************************************************************ > From: joan stanley-baker > this Tibetan Buddhist tradition used to have women priestesses up till the > fourteenth century, I believe when their authority was slowly removed > shred > by shred till they are not even given literacy in the recent centuries but > used only to serve tea > I am happy to bring this triumph to the list. It has been a very long > struggle, for this English Buddhist nun who sat for 12 years in a tub high > up in the Himalayas... to arrive at the honoured place given her here... > What she seeks is women's rights in spiritual practice and attainment, and > slowly, step by tiny step she is getting there. > Check her website http://www.gatsal.org/ > Here just to share a soft hurrahhh... > An email contact is dongyu gatsal > Joan > Joan Stanley-Baker MLitt DPhil Oxon > Emeritus Professor, Tainan National University of the Arts #15, Lane 6 > DaHeng Road,Yangmingshan, Shilin, Taipei 11191 ROC > T 02 2861 6873 F 02 2861-5595 > C 0928370357 E gaeapanda@gmail.com > http://www.artouch.com/space/ > http://61.219.169.5/joan/en_main.htm > > Margaret Gouin PhD Candidate Centre for Buddhist Studies University of Bristol (UK) From cfynn at gmx.net Sat Mar 8 02:00:38 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sat Mar 8 02:00:52 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo In-Reply-To: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> References: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <47D255B6.4010501@gmx.net> Hold on - Gelongma Tenzin Palmo has just been given the title "Jetsunma" which means something like "Venerable Lady" by the head of the Tibetan branch of the Middle Drukpa Kagyu School. While this is a great and well deserved honour calling it an "enthronement" is rather over the top - and I think Ven. Tenzin Palmo herself would not want anyone to think of it as anything like that. In 1974 I visited Tenzin in her cave (an overhanging rock with a mud wall built round the front to form a small retreat place) which was at a great altitude in the Himalyan valley of Lahoul - about an hour's walk from anyone else. The year before her retreat had been buried under an avalanche and she couldn't light a fire for weeks. The "tub" may refer to the meditation seat she sat and slept in which has wood on all sides so you have to sit upright even when you sleep - these are about the size of a bathtub - but not as long. - Chris Jessica Marie Falcone wrote: > :) > Vicki Mackenzie wrote a book about Tenzin Palmo's many years in ... a > cave. It must have been a mistranslation of some kind. > > The book is: > Cave in the Snow: Tenzin Palmo's Quest for Enlightenment. > > Cheers, > Jessica > > X-POSTED-- > Never heard of this nun--sounds like some kind of progress. > But 12 years in a....... tub?? > Joanna > ============================== > > -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From cfynn at gmx.net Sat Mar 8 02:05:41 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sat Mar 8 02:05:51 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Ethical search In-Reply-To: References: <004e01c87fb8$d490d270$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47D256E5.4000305@gmx.net> Hopefully a way to do tiny bits of good while you Google... Every time you search Google via this a penny gets sent to the charity or NGOs you select. - Chris -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From jkirk at spro.net Sat Mar 8 10:42:52 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sat Mar 8 10:42:38 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo In-Reply-To: <47D255B6.4010501@gmx.net> References: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> <47D255B6.4010501@gmx.net> Message-ID: <007601c88143$d59b0f00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Thanks Chris for this clarification--I figured it wasn't a tub but some special contraption designed for the meditation. Also thanks for the description of her retreat chamber--a vernacular architecture of a special kind. Would you please tell us how people on such distant retreats get their food and water supplies; what must they do for toilet breaks; and don't they ever get out and walk or do excercises or yoga? Twelve years of sitting-only strikes me as counterproductive so far as health goes. Joanna ================================ Hold on - Gelongma Tenzin Palmo has just been given the title "Jetsunma" which means something like "Venerable Lady" by the head of the Tibetan branch of the Middle Drukpa Kagyu School. While this is a great and well deserved honour calling it an "enthronement" is rather over the top - and I think Ven. Tenzin Palmo herself would not want anyone to think of it as anything like that. In 1974 I visited Tenzin in her cave (an overhanging rock with a mud wall built round the front to form a small retreat place) which was at a great altitude in the Himalyan valley of Lahoul - about an hour's walk from anyone else. The year before her retreat had been buried under an avalanche and she couldn't light a fire for weeks. The "tub" may refer to the meditation seat she sat and slept in which has wood on all sides so you have to sit upright even when you sleep - these are about the size of a bathtub - but not as long. - Chris Jessica Marie Falcone wrote: > :) > Vicki Mackenzie wrote a book about Tenzin Palmo's many years in ... a > cave. It must have been a mistranslation of some kind. > > The book is: > Cave in the Snow: Tenzin Palmo's Quest for Enlightenment. > > Cheers, > Jessica > > X-POSTED-- > Never heard of this nun--sounds like some kind of progress. > But 12 years in a....... tub?? > Joanna > ============================== > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM From cfynn at gmx.net Sun Mar 9 04:49:17 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sun Mar 9 04:49:24 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Enthronment of Jetsunbma Tenzin Palmo In-Reply-To: <007601c88143$d59b0f00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <4528.209.150.233.217.1204829926.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> <47D255B6.4010501@gmx.net> <007601c88143$d59b0f00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47D3C0AD.6030301@gmx.net> jkirk wrote: > Thanks Chris for this clarification--I figured it wasn't a tub but some > special contraption designed for the meditation. Also thanks for the > description of her retreat chamber--a vernacular architecture of a special > kind. > Would you please tell us how people on such distant retreats get their food > and water supplies; what must they do for toilet breaks; and don't they ever > get out and walk or do excercises or yoga? Twelve years of sitting-only > strikes me as counterproductive so far as health goes. > Joanna > ================================ When I visited her she told got food by collecting barley from households in local villages once a year and having this roasted and ground into Tsampa. This is what most of the monks, nuns and hermits in that area do. Anyway she seemed to be mainly existing on a vegetarian diet of tsampa, rice and pulses etc. Potatoes, buckwheat and small apples are also grown in that area and she would also have been given these. She told me villagers also cut her enough firewood for the winter, Anyway she was *extremely* thin (and I saw her just before the winter set in when she was must have been comparatively well fed). She mentioned at the time that she was receiving some sponsorship from John Blofeld and a Thai princess. She said she didn't really need this and had told them so. Anyway she certainly had enough to buy things like rice, oil sugar & tea leaves if she needed to. She did leave her retreat every year to visit her teacher Khamtul Rinpoche which would have been two or three days journey each way from there - as well as to collect barley and get supplies. Anyway it wasn't like she stayed isolated in this cave 12 months a year - probably more like ten. There would have been some water on the mountain - and plenty of snow to melt in the winter. It truly was a real Milarepa like situation and it is difficult to imagine how an ordinary person could survive - she must have a tremendously strong constitution and a tremendously strong will. Of course no one but herself compelled her to live in retreat in such isolation. - Chris > Hold on - Gelongma Tenzin Palmo has just been given the title "Jetsunma" > which means something like "Venerable Lady" by the head of the Tibetan > branch of the Middle Drukpa Kagyu School. While this is a great and well > deserved honour calling it an "enthronement" is rather over the top - and I > think Ven. Tenzin Palmo herself would not want anyone to think of it as > anything like that. > > In 1974 I visited Tenzin in her cave (an overhanging rock with a mud wall > built round the front to form a small retreat place) which was at a great > altitude in the Himalyan valley of Lahoul - about an hour's walk from anyone > else. The year before her retreat had been buried under an avalanche and she > couldn't light a fire for weeks. > > The "tub" may refer to the meditation seat she sat and slept in which has > wood on all sides so you have to sit upright even when you sleep - these are > about the size of a bathtub - but not as long. > > > - Chris > > > Jessica Marie Falcone wrote: >> :) >> Vicki Mackenzie wrote a book about Tenzin Palmo's many years in ... a >> cave. It must have been a mistranslation of some kind. >> >> The book is: >> Cave in the Snow: Tenzin Palmo's Quest for Enlightenment. >> >> Cheers, >> Jessica >> >> X-POSTED-- >> Never heard of this nun--sounds like some kind of progress. >> But 12 years in a....... tub?? >> Joanna >> ============================== >> >> -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From jkirk at spro.net Sun Mar 9 09:11:31 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sun Mar 9 09:11:17 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Ethical search In-Reply-To: <47D256E5.4000305@gmx.net> References: <004e01c87fb8$d490d270$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47D256E5.4000305@gmx.net> Message-ID: <002801c881f7$db712630$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Hopefully a way to do tiny bits of good while you Google... Every time you search Google via this a penny gets sent to the charity or NGOs you select. - Chris ======================== Cool--but with 5% real inflation (at lowest estimate, not the fake inflation figure offered by the guvmint), it should be 5c per search. In fact, it would help if ethicle changed the page to allow users to offer whatever they like. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 10 13:36:59 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 10 13:36:47 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Suffer little Children: Legacies of War in Cambodia Message-ID: <005001c882e6$1b9bbf60$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> HYPERLINK "http://japanfocus.org/products/details/2687"http://japanfocus.org/products/ details/2687 Suffer Little Children: Legacies of War in Cambodia Despite a ?crackdown? on rampant illegal sex, Cambodia is still a world capital of pedophilia. Excerpt: "Two years ago, the US threatened sanctions after the State Department said Cambodia had failed to meet "minimum standards" to tackle the trafficking of children....Today, with tourism increasing by 30 percent a year and many police, judges and politicians on the take, the illegal sex trade is booming. " Nothing but mere threats. Execrable. The situation is so internationally money-making that the world, and Cambodia, do nothing about it. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 3/10/2008 11:07 AM From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 10 13:59:02 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 10 13:58:43 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Suffer little Children: Legacies of War in Cambodia In-Reply-To: <005001c882e6$1b9bbf60$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <005001c882e6$1b9bbf60$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <007301c882e9$30003550$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> As usual the server format breaks the link--here is a tinyurl for same link: http://tinyurl.com/35cjb5 Let's see if this one gets through unscathed. JK -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of jkirk Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:37 PM To: 'Buddhist discussion forum' Subject: [Buddha-l] Suffer little Children: Legacies of War in Cambodia HYPERLINK http://japanfocus.org/products/details/2687"http://japanfocus.org/products/ details/2687 Suffer Little Children: Legacies of War in Cambodia Despite a ?crackdown? on rampant illegal sex, Cambodia is still a world capital of pedophilia. Excerpt: "Two years ago, the US threatened sanctions after the State Department said Cambodia had failed to meet "minimum standards" to tackle the trafficking of children....Today, with tourism increasing by 30 percent a year and many police, judges and politicians on the take, the illegal sex trade is booming. " Nothing but mere threats. Execrable. The situation is so internationally money-making that the world, and Cambodia, do nothing about it. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 3/10/2008 11:07 AM From jehms at xs4all.nl Fri Mar 14 02:39:15 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Fri Mar 14 02:39:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Tantric challenge Message-ID: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> see http://www.rationalistinternational.net/ Notice the Indian spelling of 'tantrik'. Who still thinks that a Kalacakra initiation brings world peace? -- Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Fri Mar 14 06:33:59 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Fri Mar 14 06:34:14 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Tantric challenge In-Reply-To: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> References: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/14/tibet.unrest/index.html Weng-Fai On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > see http://www.rationalistinternational.net/ > Notice the Indian spelling of 'tantrik'. > Who still thinks that a Kalacakra initiation brings world peace? > > -- > > Erik > > Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: > http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: > http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio > > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Fri Mar 14 09:28:26 2008 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Fri Mar 14 08:28:44 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Tantric challenge References: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003701c885e8$0dd5ee50$79339c04@Dan> Drepung and Sera monasteries are surrounded. Dan http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-tibet14mar14,1,3987687.story Forces surround 2 Tibet monasteries >From the Associated Press March 14, 2008 BEIJING -- Soldiers and police have been deployed around two Buddhist monasteries in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa, where monks launched protests against Chinese rule this week, witnesses and residents said. A man who answered the phone Thursday at the Sera monastery said monks had been confined inside and were relying on dwindling food supplies. The monastery was "surrounded by many people," said the man, who refused to identify himself or say whether he was a monk. Another Lhasa resident, who also refused to be identified, said the Drepung monastery was encircled by "three layers" of army personnel and that the Sera monastery had been surrounded by more than 2,000 police officers. A Foreign Ministry official in Beijing had no immediate comment late Thursday. It is difficult to get independent verification of events in Tibet because China maintains rigid control over it. From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Fri Mar 14 08:36:45 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Fri Mar 14 08:36:59 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Tantric challenge In-Reply-To: <003701c885e8$0dd5ee50$79339c04@Dan> References: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> <003701c885e8$0dd5ee50$79339c04@Dan> Message-ID: Will it be like Myanmar? Lives are lost and nothing achieved. http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Asia/STIStory_216764.html Weng-Fai From curt at cola.iges.org Fri Mar 14 08:54:02 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Fri Mar 14 08:54:23 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Tantric challenge In-Reply-To: References: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> <003701c885e8$0dd5ee50$79339c04@Dan> Message-ID: <47DA918A.80809@cola.iges.org> Wong Weng Fai wrote: > > Will it be like Myanmar? Lives are lost and nothing achieved. > > http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Asia/STIStory_216764.html > At times like these I would encourage people to re-read their Bhagavad Gita, especially chapters 1 and 2. It's what Gandhi would do (in fact, it is what he did). It is ours to act - but the results of our actions do not belong to us. Nor should we be attached to non-action. In other words: give the Chinese hell. Curt Steinmetz From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 14 10:41:24 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 14 10:41:28 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Tantric challenge In-Reply-To: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> References: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003d01c885f2$3de951e0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Rationalist Internatoinal is an interesting organization------scrolling down the article, I learned for the 1st time that there is a Central Council of Ex-Muslims recently founded in Germany! All these fearless people--Taslima, Ahadi--Namazie-- all women. I wonder why............... Joanna ============================================= see http://www.rationalistinternational.net/ Notice the Indian spelling of 'tantrik'. Who still thinks that a Kalacakra initiation brings world peace? -- Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 14 11:53:03 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 14 11:53:25 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] The film, Buddha's Painter, to be screened in Israel, at Spiritual Film Festival Message-ID: <004201c885fc$408e9cc0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> >From filmmaker Thomas Gonschior, I am invited to show `Buddha's Painter' at the Spiritual Film Festival in Tel Aviv/Israel (May 14th-18th, 2008) Just in case you know there anybody who might be interested to see the film. They will also make a Hebrew version. Greetings, Thomas The journal _Visual Anthropology_ has just published a review of Gonschior's film, in 21(2) March-April, 2008. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 14 12:37:07 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 14 12:37:05 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Lhasa protests--take action In-Reply-To: <003701c885e8$0dd5ee50$79339c04@Dan> References: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> <003701c885e8$0dd5ee50$79339c04@Dan> Message-ID: <000e01c88602$683e5070$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> The United States Campaign for Burma has mounted a boycott campaign on watching the Chinese Olympics on TV. See their website. http://uscampaignforburma.org/ Go to http://tinyurl.com/356nrf for info on the anti-Chinese Olympics call. Joanna =================================================================== Drepung and Sera monasteries are surrounded. Dan http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-tibet14mar14,1,3987687.s tory Forces surround 2 Tibet monasteries >From the Associated Press March 14, 2008 BEIJING -- Soldiers and police have been deployed around two Buddhist monasteries in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa, where monks launched protests against Chinese rule this week, witnesses and residents said. A man who answered the phone Thursday at the Sera monastery said monks had been confined inside and were relying on dwindling food supplies. The monastery was "surrounded by many people," said the man, who refused to identify himself or say whether he was a monk. Another Lhasa resident, who also refused to be identified, said the Drepung monastery was encircled by "three layers" of army personnel and that the Sera monastery had been surrounded by more than 2,000 police officers. A Foreign Ministry official in Beijing had no immediate comment late Thursday. It is difficult to get independent verification of events in Tibet because China maintains rigid control over it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM From cfynn at gmx.net Sat Mar 15 10:20:10 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sat Mar 15 10:20:22 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Lhasa protests- In-Reply-To: <000e01c88602$683e5070$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <47DA39B3.1070403@xs4all.nl> <003701c885e8$0dd5ee50$79339c04@Dan> <000e01c88602$683e5070$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47DBF73A.3090003@gmx.net> The protests in Tibet are not only in Lhasa. RFA reports that at Labrang ? a major monastery in Amdo (Gansu province) ? monks led a protest of at least 1,000 people on Friday. This is in a Tibetan area well outside the TAR. -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From jkirk at spro.net Sat Mar 15 19:10:37 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sat Mar 15 19:10:33 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings Message-ID: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> But supporters of the protesters warned that long-simmering resentment would not die down soon. 'China has swamped Tibet with settlers, poured money into colonialist mega-projects that solidify its control and ruthlessly attacked Tibetan culture and religion,' said Tenzin Dorjee, deputy director of Students for a Free Tibet. 'The timing and scale of this unrest indicate a truly national Tibetan uprising against China's illegal occupation.' Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM From jehms at xs4all.nl Sun Mar 16 09:16:27 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Sun Mar 16 09:16:34 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> jkirk schreef: > But supporters of the protesters warned that long-simmering resentment would > not die down soon. 'China has swamped Tibet with settlers, poured money into > colonialist mega-projects that solidify its control and ruthlessly attacked > Tibetan culture and religion,' said Tenzin Dorjee, deputy director of > Students for a Free Tibet. 'The timing and scale of this unrest indicate a > truly national Tibetan uprising against China's illegal occupation.' > > Today I attended a demonstration in front of the Chinese embassy. A several hundreds of people came and that was exceptional, because in past years we were only with twenty or thirty. A Tibetan young men succeeded to crawl under the gate and got hold of the Chinese flag which was burned ofcourse. Later a small part of the fence was damaged. Nobody got hurt and the police just watched adn pushed a few people back. A senator was also there and she expressed her full support for the Tibetan case, which again never happened before. In Holland there are a few standup comedians and artists who are aware of what's going on and are in favour of a boycott of the Olympics. The 20th of april there's a rockfestival for Tibet in Amsterdam. It seems that the Chinese governement is feeling the pressure, because they officially reacted to criticism on Chinese involvement in Darfur. It's important to understand that these events are not carefully orchestrated puppet shows, but outbursts of anger and despair caused by many years of oppression and cruelty. And let's not forget Birma. Is Hu Jintao any better then Saddam Hussein? -- Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio From cfynn at gmx.net Sun Mar 16 10:29:20 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sun Mar 16 10:29:33 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: eyewitness reports In-Reply-To: <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <47DD4AE0.1000701@gmx.net> Eyewitness reports from across Tibet posted by Radio Free Asia: - Chris -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From jkirk at spro.net Sun Mar 16 11:33:32 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sun Mar 16 11:33:26 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <004601c8878b$db51e380$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Today I attended a demonstration in front of the Chinese embassy. A several hundreds of people came and that was exceptional, because in past years we were only with twenty or thirty. A Tibetan young men succeeded to crawl under the gate and got hold of the Chinese flag which was burned ofcourse. Later a small part of the fence was damaged. Nobody got hurt and the police just watched adn pushed a few people back. A senator was also there and she expressed her full support for the Tibetan case, which again never happened before. In Holland there are a few standup comedians and artists who are aware of what's going on and are in favour of a boycott of the Olympics. The 20th of april there's a rockfestival for Tibet in Amsterdam. It seems that the Chinese governement is feeling the pressure, because they officially reacted to criticism on Chinese involvement in Darfur. It's important to understand that these events are not carefully orchestrated puppet shows, but outbursts of anger and despair caused by many years of oppression and cruelty. And let's not forget Birma. Is Hu Jintao any better then Saddam Hussein? Erik =================== 'And let's not forget Birma. Is Hu Jintao any better then Saddam Hussein?' Right--good question. Or Than Swe? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Sun Mar 16 21:06:14 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Weng-Fai Wong) Date: Sun Mar 16 21:06:25 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> An interesting read... http://www.todayonline.com/articles/243318.asp By the way, Deng Xiaoping said during Tiananmen - "We will kill 200,000 for 20 years of stability" - and that's 200,000 Han Chinese, mind you. W.F. Wong From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Sun Mar 16 21:11:20 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Weng-Fai Wong) Date: Sun Mar 16 21:11:29 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Thai PM has newfound respect for ruling junta Thailand's new Prime Minister said yesterday he has a new-found respect for the ruling junta in Myanmar after learning that they meditate like good Buddhists should. "Westerners have a saying, 'Look at both sides of the coin,' but westerners only look at one side," Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said in his weekly television talk show, two days after an official visit to Myanmar. "Myanmar is a Buddhist country. Myanmar's leaders meditate and say the country lives in peace," Mr Samak said. Both countries are pre-dominantly Buddhist. Myanmar's junta has come under global criticism for its crackdown on pro-democracy protesters last year but Mr Samak said he preferred to talk about bilateral trade. "We want to do something about dams," said Mr Samak, adding that the junta had also "found new gas resources". "I negotiated with them so we can sign contracts," he said. From jkirk at spro.net Sun Mar 16 21:23:58 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sun Mar 16 21:24:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> It mentions Chinese "perennial suspicions of India." That's a laugh--India is kissing China's big toes these days-- so is Nepal------- As if India would bother to invade China when she is on a tear, getting richer by the minute. Joanna ============================== An interesting read... http://www.todayonline.com/articles/243318.asp By the way, Deng Xiaoping said during Tiananmen - "We will kill 200,000 for 20 years of stability" - and that's 200,000 Han Chinese, mind you. W.F. Wong _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM From jkirk at spro.net Sun Mar 16 21:27:35 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sun Mar 16 21:27:28 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Thailand's Burma policy is smug, smarmy, and sickening. Their government has lost the Buddhist path. All this is disgusting window-dressing..all about money. Their government is also run by a military junta, more behind the scenes but still military. Joanna ----------------------------- >From Weng-Fai Wong Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:11 PM Thai PM has newfound respect for ruling junta Thailand's new Prime Minister said yesterday he has a new-found respect for the ruling junta in Myanmar after learning that they meditate like good Buddhists should. "Westerners have a saying, 'Look at both sides of the coin,' but westerners only look at one side," Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said in his weekly television talk show, two days after an official visit to Myanmar. "Myanmar is a Buddhist country. Myanmar's leaders meditate and say the country lives in peace," Mr Samak said. Both countries are pre-dominantly Buddhist. Myanmar's junta has come under global criticism for its crackdown on pro-democracy protesters last year but Mr Samak said he preferred to talk about bilateral trade. "We want to do something about dams," said Mr Samak, adding that the junta had also "found new gas resources". "I negotiated with them so we can sign contracts," he said. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Mon Mar 17 00:19:31 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Weng-Fai Wong) Date: Mon Mar 17 00:19:45 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> The Chinese government maintains that most of the dead were innocent bystanders. http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Asia/STIStory_217614.html From jehms at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 17 02:33:50 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Mon Mar 17 02:33:57 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <47DE2CEE.60006@xs4all.nl> Weng-Fai Wong schreef: > Thai PM has newfound respect for ruling junta > > Thailand's new Prime Minister said yesterday he has a new-found respect for > the ruling junta in Myanmar after learning that they meditate like good > Buddhists should. > > "Westerners have a saying, 'Look at both sides of the coin,' but westerners > only look at one side," Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said in his weekly > television talk show, two days after an official visit to Myanmar. > > "Myanmar is a Buddhist country. Myanmar's leaders meditate and say the > country lives in peace," Mr Samak said. Both countries are pre-dominantly > Buddhist. > > Myanmar's junta has come under global criticism for its crackdown on > pro-democracy protesters last year but Mr Samak said he preferred to talk > about bilateral trade. > > "We want to do something about dams," said Mr Samak, adding that the junta > had also "found new gas resources". > > "I negotiated with them so we can sign contracts," he said. > > Funny, what some gas can do for ones meditation and respectability. Erik From jehms at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 17 02:41:55 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Mon Mar 17 02:42:01 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> Weng-Fai Wong schreef: > The Chinese government maintains that most of the dead were innocent > bystanders. > > http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Asia/STIStory_217614.html > > > > Undoubtedly killed by deadly prayers of ferocious monks. Erik From selwyn at ntlworld.com Mon Mar 17 02:52:41 2008 From: selwyn at ntlworld.com (L.S. Cousins) Date: Mon Mar 17 02:53:06 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> Thailand has just had an election and the new government certainly doe snot represent any kind of military junta. Lance Cousins jkirk wrote: > Thailand's Burma policy is smug, smarmy, and sickening. Their government has > lost the Buddhist path. All this is disgusting window-dressing..all about > money. Their government is also run by a military junta, more behind the > scenes but still military. > Joanna > ----------------------------- > >From Weng-Fai Wong > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:11 PM > > Thai PM has newfound respect for ruling junta > > Thailand's new Prime Minister said yesterday he has a new-found respect for > the ruling junta in Myanmar after learning that they meditate like good > Buddhists should. > > "Westerners have a saying, 'Look at both sides of the coin,' but westerners > only look at one side," Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said in his weekly > television talk show, two days after an official visit to Myanmar. > > "Myanmar is a Buddhist country. Myanmar's leaders meditate and say the > country lives in peace," Mr Samak said. Both countries are pre-dominantly > Buddhist. > > Myanmar's junta has come under global criticism for its crackdown on > pro-democracy protesters last year but Mr Samak said he preferred to talk > about bilateral trade. > > "We want to do something about dams," said Mr Samak, adding that the junta > had also "found new gas resources". > > "I negotiated with them so we can sign contracts," he said. > From jehms at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 17 03:11:22 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Mon Mar 17 03:11:49 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <47DE35BA.3040503@xs4all.nl> L.S. Cousins schreef: > Thailand has just had an election and the new government certainly doe > snot represent any kind of military junta. > > > Lance Cousins > On the contrary, the majority in the new government are supporters of mr. Taxim, senteced for corruption, owner of an English soccer club and popular by the poor farmers. Erik From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 17 07:54:34 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 17 07:54:33 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Weng-Fai Wong schreef: > The Chinese government maintains that most of the dead were innocent > bystanders. > > http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Asia/STIStory_217614.html > > Undoubtedly killed by deadly prayers of ferocious monks. Erik =========== The monks weren't armed by deadly weapons --so I guess that leaves the Chinese police responsible. No doubt innocent Tibetan bystanders, at that. JK No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 17 07:59:05 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 17 07:58:59 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <003601c88837$10a53360$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> The military are still behind the scenes. If they decide they don't like what's goingon, they will take over again. Joanna ========================= Thailand has just had an election and the new government certainly doe snot represent any kind of military junta. Lance Cousins jkirk wrote: > Thailand's Burma policy is smug, smarmy, and sickening. Their government has > lost the Buddhist path. All this is disgusting window-dressing..all about > money. Their government is also run by a military junta, more behind the > scenes but still military. > Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM From jehms at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 17 09:13:55 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Mon Mar 17 09:14:05 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Meatphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> The Chinese governement fights H.L. the Dalai Lama on all fronts, see http://www.dorjeshugden.com/panchenshugden.htm It occurred to me that there might be a philosophical background to the hatred Hu Jintao c.s. has against the D.L. During the Ming-dynasty (1368-1644)and later in the Qin (1644-1912) Chinese philosophy became more and more utilistic and antimetaphysical, metaphysics was considered as Buddhist or Daoist pollution of pure Chinese thought. This culminated in the communist revolution, which combined antimetaphysicalism with anti-intellectualism (logophobia). The Chinese philosopher Fong Yulan for instance, rejected almost all of his former philosophical work after he got the attention of Mao, I presume for patriotistic reasons. Now the two most feared ennemies of the present regime in China are buddhism and Falun Gong, both strongly metaphysical movements. This does not suggest that utilism is repressive and metaphysics is a way to freedom, but it may point to a problem of justification of power of the present regime. Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 17 12:31:18 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 17 12:31:15 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <47DE35BA.3040503@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> <47DE35BA.3040503@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <004f01c8885d$17c4f920$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> L.S. Cousins schreef: > Thailand has just had an election and the new government certainly doe > snot represent any kind of military junta. > > > Lance Cousins > On the contrary, the majority in the new government are supporters of mr. Taxim, senteced for corruption, owner of an English soccer club and popular by the poor farmers. Erik ================ Mr Thaksin was the prime minister ousted by the military, but now his supporters are back in power. Remains to be seen how long the military will tolerate that. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM From selwyn at ntlworld.com Mon Mar 17 12:47:30 2008 From: selwyn at ntlworld.com (L.S. Cousins) Date: Mon Mar 17 12:47:37 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <004f01c8885d$17c4f920$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> <47DE35BA.3040503@xs4all.nl> <004f01c8885d$17c4f920$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47DEBCC2.6030801@ntlworld.com> Joanna, Just at the moment the military are rather discredited and so that is not a problem. But I don't doubt that some of the military are hoping for just that. Lance > ================ > Mr Thaksin was the prime minister ousted by the military, but now his > supporters are back in power. > Remains to be seen how long the military will tolerate that. > Joanna From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 17 12:56:57 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 17 12:56:59 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Now for Burma's junta In-Reply-To: <47DEBCC2.6030801@ntlworld.com> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl> <004301c887dc$92ce2f00$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001c01c887de$d8020680$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DE3159.30805@ntlworld.com> <47DE35BA.3040503@xs4all.nl><004f01c8885d$17c4f920$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DEBCC2.6030801@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <000b01c88860$ad1f5990$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Hi Lance, Let's hope it doesn't happen---but militaries world-wide stick together like glue. Historically, Siam and Burma were enemies--but now that military rule has been installed in both of them, they are apparently friendly. Joanna =================== Joanna, Just at the moment the military are rather discredited and so that is not a problem. But I don't doubt that some of the military are hoping for just that. Lance > ================ > Mr Thaksin was the prime minister ousted by the military, but now his > supporters are back in power. > Remains to be seen how long the military will tolerate that. > Joanna _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM From cfynn at gmx.net Tue Mar 18 00:38:06 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue Mar 18 00:38:29 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <47DF634E.3010208@gmx.net> Tibet: "Struggle will go on, despite the crackdown" article by Tsering Topgyal, a Tibetan grad student at the LSE: or: - C From cfynn at gmx.net Tue Mar 18 03:14:47 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue Mar 18 03:15:31 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Meatphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <47DF8807.4030809@gmx.net> Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > The Chinese governement fights H.L. the Dalai Lama on all fronts, see > http://www.dorjeshugden.com/panchenshugden.htm It is just co-incidence that the controversy over this so called "protector" has flared up again recently - not long before this unrest in Tibet? I recently got an email from someone in India reporting 13 people being killed near Sera Monastery in connection with the dispute over this "protector" - and of partly burnt bodies being found in nearby fields with organs missing. There alsor eports of strange "monks" kidnapping people. Rumours in the Tibetan camps are that these "monks" are people in the pay of china trying to destabilise the Tibetan refugee community. Despite the difference in content the text on this "Dorje Shugden" website pointed out by Erik looks very to me like it was written by the same person responsible for the equally mysterious website. If so just what is going on here? - Chris From cfynn at gmx.net Tue Mar 18 03:47:27 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue Mar 18 03:47:49 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> Simmering Resentments Led to Tibetan Backlash: or: Dalai Lama attacks 'cultural genocide': or: China premier accuses Dalai Lama: China prepares for crackdown by clearing Tibetan capital of witnesses: or: China sends in troops to seal off Tibet: Younger generation rejects non-violent tradition: Chinese 'censorship': China?s ethnic policies led to Tibet riots: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/editorial/20080318TDY04305.htm 1,000 Tibetans arrested in Chinese crackdown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onB7pIT4mKo&eurl=http://news.google.com/ From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 07:47:56 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 07:47:56 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Metaphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <47DF8807.4030809@gmx.net> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> <47DF8807.4030809@gmx.net> Message-ID: <001401c888fe$abd40a10$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Sera monastery in India? Isn't that one in the south somewhere? Tamil Nadu, or? Jk ===================== Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > The Chinese governement fights H.L. the Dalai Lama on all fronts, see > http://www.dorjeshugden.com/panchenshugden.htm It is just co-incidence that the controversy over this so called "protector" has flared up again recently - not long before this unrest in Tibet? I recently got an email from someone in India reporting 13 people being killed near Sera Monastery in connection with the dispute over this "protector" - and of partly burnt bodies being found in nearby fields with organs missing. There also reports of strange "monks" kidnapping people. Rumours in the Tibetan camps are that these "monks" are people in the pay of china trying to destabilise the Tibetan refugee community. Despite the difference in content the text on this "Dorje Shugden" website pointed out by Erik looks very to me like it was written by the same person responsible for the equally mysterious website. If so just what is going on here? - Chris _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM From curt at cola.iges.org Tue Mar 18 08:01:26 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Tue Mar 18 08:01:56 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> Message-ID: <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> Christopher Fynn wrote: > > Younger generation rejects non-violent tradition: > > I don't think that pacifism has ever been widely accepted among Tibetans. Historically it has never been a tenet of Vajrayana - quite the opposite, in fact. Because of the the authority that the Dalai Lama has, and also because of the daunting prospect of directly taking on the Chinese, I think that Tibetans were willing to, as the old song says, "give peace a chance". But not only has HHDL's approach failed to yield any results, but he has also encouraged the development of a more democratic political culture for Tibetans. I think it is because of these two factors that many Tibetans, like those quoted in the article linked above, are starting to say more loudly and more publicly what they have been saying quietly and privately all along. If His Holiness listens to the Tibetan people he might even do what Nelson Mandela did after the Sharpeville Massacre - and abandon "passive resistance" as the only acceptable form of struggle. But even if he does not do that - I doubt very much that the 15th Dalai Lama will be a pacifist. Curt Steinmetz From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Tue Mar 18 08:14:41 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Tue Mar 18 08:14:52 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: The Muslim separatists in Xinjiang never "gave peace a chance" but also seems to get no where with the CCP. Why will a Tibetan violent uprising make it? W.F. Wong On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Curt Steinmetz wrote: > Christopher Fynn wrote: >> >> Younger generation rejects non-violent tradition: >> >> > > I don't think that pacifism has ever been widely accepted among Tibetans. > Historically it has never been a tenet of Vajrayana - quite the opposite, in > fact. > > Because of the the authority that the Dalai Lama has, and also because of the > daunting prospect of directly taking on the Chinese, I think that Tibetans > were willing to, as the old song says, "give peace a chance". But not only > has HHDL's approach failed to yield any results, but he has also encouraged > the development of a more democratic political culture for Tibetans. I think > it is because of these two factors that many Tibetans, like those quoted in > the article linked above, are starting to say more loudly and more publicly > what they have been saying quietly and privately all along. > > If His Holiness listens to the Tibetan people he might even do what Nelson > Mandela did after the Sharpeville Massacre - and abandon "passive resistance" > as the only acceptable form of struggle. But even if he does not do that - I > doubt very much that the 15th Dalai Lama will be a pacifist. > > Curt Steinmetz > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 08:30:36 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 08:30:29 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <002701c88904$a1cf48d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> HHDL won't abandon passive resistance because he knows that if he supports uprisings positively (as opposed to just not criticising them) many more lamas and civilians will be killed. He could not accept that consequence. Anyway, how could the Tibetans in Tibet successfully throw the Chinese out? It's impossible now because China is fully armed and the rest are not. The most any of us can hope for, is that the international "community" will pressure China to stop oppressing and swamping out the Tibetans in Tibet (which China says is "their own" country). However, it didn't happen with Burma, so it probably is not going to happen in this case, either. All the talk about international human rights is just so much international prevarication to save various faces here and there--phony as a one dollar US bill. Joanna ============ Christopher Fynn wrote: > > Younger generation rejects non-violent tradition: > > I don't think that pacifism has ever been widely accepted among Tibetans. Historically it has never been a tenet of Vajrayana - quite the opposite, in fact. Because of the the authority that the Dalai Lama has, and also because of the daunting prospect of directly taking on the Chinese, I think that Tibetans were willing to, as the old song says, "give peace a chance". But not only has HHDL's approach failed to yield any results, but he has also encouraged the development of a more democratic political culture for Tibetans. I think it is because of these two factors that many Tibetans, like those quoted in the article linked above, are starting to say more loudly and more publicly what they have been saying quietly and privately all along. If His Holiness listens to the Tibetan people he might even do what Nelson Mandela did after the Sharpeville Massacre - and abandon "passive resistance" as the only acceptable form of struggle. But even if he does not do that - I doubt very much that the 15th Dalai Lama will be a pacifist. Curt Steinmetz _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Tue Mar 18 08:32:11 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Tue Mar 18 08:32:30 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Curt Steinmetz wrote: > I doubt very much that the 15th Dalai Lama will be a pacifist. Nah... the 15th DL will be chosen by China - like the existing Panchen Lama - and probably by him too - and approved by the People's Congress. But seriously, I am afraid the Tibetan people has little leverage over the CCP and the PLA. The stakes are too high for the Chinese - Tibet and Xinjiang (Muslim separatists) together represent nearly half the land area of China. And despite what Westerners think, the current leadership - Hu and Wen - (according to my unscientific feel) actually have good support amongst majority of the Chinese. W.F. Wong From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Tue Mar 18 08:53:40 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Tue Mar 18 08:53:51 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <002701c88904$a1cf48d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> <002701c88904$a1cf48d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: Joanna is right. And so too I believe is HHDL. The correct amount of stakes have to be played. If it is about Tibetan independence, you can forget it - the CCP+PLA will hit Tibet with all they have. However, if you play for face (and the Chinese love face), then you can perhaps make them do the somewhat right thing. China will want to be seen as a "grown up" eventually. They have already showed their willingness to pour a lot of money into Tibet. Unfortunately, it has backfired - for the prosperity attracted the poorer Hans from other provinces to move to Tibet. I believe it is not an intended consequence - just look at the trouble they are having keeping migrant workers in check in the prosperous cities. HHDL has said openly that he is not fighting for an independent Tibet but for the preservation of its culture and dignity. The latter (no matter how hard it seems) has a chance of being at least partially achievable. The former is out of the question. So too Taiwan. While China may bully them here and there, as long as the "I" (I for Independence) word is not brought into the open, they seems fairly ok with status quo. W.F. Wong PS: My personal stand is with HHDL. From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 08:58:13 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 08:58:07 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings Message-ID: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Caption to a photo of Dalai Lama today: AP Photo Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama speaks to the media in Dharmsala, India, Tuesday, March 18, 2008. The Dalai Lama threatened Tuesday to step down as leader of Tibet's government in exile if violence committed by Tibetans in his homeland spirals out of control. Next to this photo is an article dated Beijing, where China ccuses HHDL of the whole fracas: "There is ample fact - and we also have plenty of evidence - proving that this incident was organized, premeditated, masterminded and incited by the Dalai clique," Wen told reporters at his annual news conference at the end of China's national legislative session." etc I think HHDL has been wanting to retire. This might be his chance. The Chinese will crow victory, but not everyone else will echo them. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 09:19:43 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 09:19:37 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net><47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org><002701c88904$a1cf48d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <001b01c8890b$7e4b2a80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Thing is, how to exert a big "face issue" on the PRC? The major countries of the world are just mostly cooling their heels, making weak assertions about "human rights." They are afraid that if the Olympics this year get tarred, their own athletes might not be able to gain a lot of face for their nations by competing. It will be interesting to see if down the road some athletes decide not to go, for human rights reasons, but they will be under a lot of pressure from their own countries. Suspect that some alternative world groups will escalate the "boycott the Olympics" campaign, however. Let's see how it goes. JK ================= Joanna is right. And so too I believe is HHDL. The correct amount of stakes have to be played. If it is about Tibetan independence, you can forget it - the CCP+PLA will hit Tibet with all they have. However, if you play for face (and the Chinese love face), then you can perhaps make them do the somewhat right thing. China will want to be seen as a "grown up" eventually. They have already showed their willingness to pour a lot of money into Tibet. Unfortunately, it has backfired - for the prosperity attracted the poorer Hans from other provinces to move to Tibet. I believe it is not an intended consequence - just look at the trouble they are having keeping migrant workers in check in the prosperous cities. HHDL has said openly that he is not fighting for an independent Tibet but for the preservation of its culture and dignity. The latter (no matter how hard it seems) has a chance of being at least partially achievable. The former is out of the question. So too Taiwan. While China may bully them here and there, as long as the "I" (I for Independence) word is not brought into the open, they seems fairly ok with status quo. W.F. Wong PS: My personal stand is with HHDL. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 09:53:18 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 09:53:17 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Metaphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <001401c888fe$abd40a10$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl><47DF8807.4030809@gmx.net> <001401c888fe$abd40a10$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <002f01c88910$2f371440$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> So what's the deal according to you, Chris? Is Sera monastery the homebase for the Shugden cult? Is China supporting the Shugdens, or not? These websites are extremely confusing. Joanna ============================================== Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > The Chinese governement fights H.L. the Dalai Lama on all fronts, see > http://www.dorjeshugden.com/panchenshugden.htm It is just co-incidence that the controversy over this so called "protector" has flared up again recently - not long before this unrest in Tibet? I recently got an email from someone in India reporting 13 people being killed near Sera Monastery in connection with the dispute over this "protector" - and of partly burnt bodies being found in nearby fields with organs missing. There also reports of strange "monks" kidnapping people. Rumours in the Tibetan camps are that these "monks" are people in the pay of china trying to destabilise the Tibetan refugee community. Despite the difference in content the text on this "Dorje Shugden" website pointed out by Erik looks very to me like it was written by the same person responsible for the equally mysterious website. If so just what is going on here? - Chris _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM From curt at cola.iges.org Tue Mar 18 10:04:49 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Tue Mar 18 10:05:20 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> There is nothing inevitable about a Tibet vs. China match-up. Empires over-reach all the time - and all empires fall eventually. In terms of preserving Tibetan culture it is absolutely essential that the Tibetans resist the demographic Sinnification. Making Chinese nationals in Tibet feel unwelcome seems like a very effective strategy to that end. But of course it is up to the Tibetans to decide how they should resist. Curt From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 10:22:26 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 10:22:22 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <004401c88914$41670180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Right Curt--but the decline and fall of empires ends up taking millions of people and resources with them. Ex.: the USA today--here and abroad. We in the USA haven't resisted the comsumeristification promoted by our elites since McGovern lost his run for the presidency, leaving our country with dependence on foreign oil and degradation of our own environment and our oceans. Joanna ============= There is nothing inevitable about a Tibet vs. China match-up. Empires over-reach all the time - and all empires fall eventually. In terms of preserving Tibetan culture it is absolutely essential that the Tibetans resist the demographic Sinnification. Making Chinese nationals in Tibet feel unwelcome seems like a very effective strategy to that end. But of course it is up to the Tibetans to decide how they should resist. Curt _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 10:39:43 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 10:39:39 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Meatphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl><002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <000001c88916$aba6cba0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Erik, I'm perplexed by your use of the term "metaphysical movements" here. In what way is Buddhism metaphysical? Maybe Mahayana Buddhism, the prevalent type in China? But chan isn't metaphysical, is it? Certainly Falun Gong is--I'd call it magical rather than metaphysical, though. Joanna ============= The Chinese governement fights H.L. the Dalai Lama on all fronts, see http://www.dorjeshugden.com/panchenshugden.htm It occurred to me that there might be a philosophical background to the hatred Hu Jintao c.s. has against the D.L. During the Ming-dynasty (1368-1644)and later in the Qin (1644-1912) Chinese philosophy became more and more utilistic and antimetaphysical, metaphysics was considered as Buddhist or Daoist pollution of pure Chinese thought. This culminated in the communist revolution, which combined antimetaphysicalism with anti-intellectualism (logophobia). The Chinese philosopher Fong Yulan for instance, rejected almost all of his former philosophical work after he got the attention of Mao, I presume for patriotistic reasons. Now the two most feared ennemies of the present regime in China are buddhism and Falun Gong, both strongly metaphysical movements. This does not suggest that utilism is repressive and metaphysics is a way to freedom, but it may point to a problem of justification of power of the present regime. Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM From james.blumenthal at oregonstate.edu Tue Mar 18 14:02:21 2008 From: james.blumenthal at oregonstate.edu (Blumenthal, James) Date: Tue Mar 18 14:07:55 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net> <47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <0AA38D9E66B59D4B8EB25114CCA9EB7E081F29CD@NWS-EXCH1.nws.oregonstate.edu> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Curt Steinmetz wrote: >> I doubt very much that the 15th Dalai Lama will be a pacifist. >Nah... the 15th DL will be chosen by China - like the existing Panchen >Lama - and probably by him too - and approved by the People's Congress. >W.F. Wong Just like virtually no Tibetans believe the Chinese Panchen Lama is the real one, nobody would believe a Chinese govenernment-chosen Dalai Lama XV, including one chosen by the Chinese-installed Panchen Lama. A few months ago the Dalai Lama said he would personally choose the next Dalai Lama before he dies. Jim Blumenthal From jehms at xs4all.nl Tue Mar 18 14:23:07 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Tue Mar 18 14:23:17 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Meatphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <000001c88916$aba6cba0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl><002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> <000001c88916$aba6cba0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47E024AB.2050508@xs4all.nl> jkirk schreef: > Erik, > I'm perplexed by your use of the term "metaphysical movements" here. > In what way is Buddhism metaphysical? Maybe Mahayana Buddhism, the > prevalent type in China? > But chan isn't metaphysical, is it? > Certainly Falun Gong is--I'd call it magical rather than metaphysical, > though. > Joanna > ============= > > Hi Joanna, my use of the word certainly is in line with Chinese philosophy during the Ming and Qing dynasty, and not very different from the use of the word in analytical philosophy and even phenmenology. The word 'metaphysics' came about by Theophrastos, pupil of Aritotles who made a category of Aristotles books called 'meta ta physica', meaning that which comes after the (books about) physics. These books were about reality in general and categories of reality. Later the word came to mean a philosophy about things above nature. So every proposition that is not about concrete things and events, i.o.w. that is not scientific or is not open to scientific investigation is in fact metaphysical. Buddhanature is a metaphysical subject as are cakra's, a subtle body, karma, ritual etc. Magic is metaphysics because it claims the possibility of unnatural causality, in fact it confuses semiotic manipulation with natural causation. A ritual is a transformation of meaning and not a causal event, but magicians claim they can change things through rituals. Of course one can say that a thing changes if the meaning changes, but that would mean that magic is just practical psychology and not magical anymore. Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio From jehms at xs4all.nl Tue Mar 18 15:17:30 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Tue Mar 18 15:17:35 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <004401c88914$41670180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <004401c88914$41670180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47E0316A.2080203@xs4all.nl> jkirk schreef: > Right Curt--but the decline and fall of empires ends up taking millions of > people and resources with them. > Ex.: the USA today--here and abroad. We in the USA haven't resisted the > comsumeristification promoted by our elites since McGovern lost his run for > the presidency, leaving our country with dependence on foreign oil and > degradation of our own environment and our oceans. > > Joanna > I think the Tibetans just have to sit it out. Giving the maximum amount of pressure this time and again whenever possible. But then again one never knows. The Qin only lasted from 221 B.C. to 206 B.C. The present regime has somewhat similar ideas and methods, but they are losening up. The general tendency of public opinion nowadays is that repression is for losers. If the regime discovers that their method is not effective and makes them lose face abroad, who knows what they or the next leaders will do? I don't know how popular they are in China, (there have been demonstrations against land reforms recently) but I can imagine that not everyone in China is very happy with communism. My Taiji teacher hates it anyway. So maybe things will change soon. The Berlin wall fell without a warning too. Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 18 18:57:31 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 18 18:57:39 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] boycott of the opening ceremony proposed Message-ID: <000001c8895c$3656bdb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> EU asked to weigh punishing Beijing Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner of France said Tuesday that the European Union should consider punishing China's crackdown in Tibet with a boycott of the opening ceremony of this summer's Olympic Games in Beijing. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/18/asia/react.php neat photo here of signs hung on Chinese terracotta army figures on display at British Museum Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM From cfynn at gmx.net Tue Mar 18 21:26:47 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue Mar 18 21:27:11 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Metaphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <001401c888fe$abd40a10$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl> <47DF8807.4030809@gmx.net> <001401c888fe$abd40a10$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47E087F7.50403@gmx.net> jkirk wrote: > > Sera monastery in India? Isn't that one in the south somewhere? Tamil Nadu, > or? > Jk > ===================== Sera monatery is located in the large Tibetan settlment at Byallakuppe (near Kushalnagar), Mysore district, Karnataka. There are several large very Tibetan settlements in Karnataka at Byallakuppe, Hunsur, Kollegal, and Mungod. At one time it was estimated that over half the Tibetan refugees in India were resettled in Karnataka. The three large "State Monastaries" of central Tibet (Sera, Dreping & Ganden) have all been re-established in Karnataka (Sera at Byallakuppe and Drepung & Gaden at Mungod) each of these has several thousand monks. Many "new arrivals" from Tibet are sent to these monasteries to become monks and today a large proportion of the monks in those institutions are those that have arrived from Tibet in the last 20 years rather than from the Tibetan diaspora which arrived in India during the late 50's and 60's. These monks are subsidised by the Dharamsala based Tibetan Government in Exile. - Chris From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Wed Mar 19 03:32:37 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Weng-Fai Wong) Date: Wed Mar 19 03:33:13 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <001b01c8890b$7e4b2a80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><47DF8FAF.7020604@gmx.net><47DFCB36.6000708@cola.iges.org><002701c88904$a1cf48d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <001b01c8890b$7e4b2a80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <008301c889a4$2bb78b30$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> A news report... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVtgKbS0ijY From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Wed Mar 19 05:59:48 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Wed Mar 19 06:00:00 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings In-Reply-To: <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Curt Steinmetz wrote: > In terms of > preserving Tibetan culture it is absolutely essential that the Tibetans > resist the demographic Sinnification. In my humble opinion, the bigger threat to Tibetan culture and way of life (as with most of the rest of the world) in the long run is Hollywoodization, Disneyization, MacDonaldization, Californication and the likes. The Chinese themselves are losing this battle. W.F. Wong From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Wed Mar 19 08:26:34 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Wed Mar 19 08:26:50 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Does robots have consciousness? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: We are pretty near the Star Wars/Matrix era... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mmVaLp8icoU W.F. Wong Note: The company is a spin-off from MIT Legs Lab. The project is funded by DARPA. No prize for guessing the intended use of this thing. Imagine an Iraq war with zero American casualties coz only robots are used. From cfynn at gmx.net Wed Mar 19 08:34:20 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed Mar 19 08:34:28 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Metaphysical warfare In-Reply-To: <002f01c88910$2f371440$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88702$8bb1d170$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DD39CB.8090300@xs4all.nl><003601c887db$dcc7fa60$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <001b01c887de$570c1c00$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><007801c887f6$dcba4a80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47DE2ED3.3020609@xs4all.nl> <002401c88836$6f03a320$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><47DE8AB3.7090803@xs4all.nl><47DF8807.4030809@gmx.net> <001401c888fe$abd40a10$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <002f01c88910$2f371440$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47E1246C.6000900@gmx.net> jkirk wrote: > So what's the deal according to you, Chris? > Is Sera monastery the homebase for the Shugden cult? Hi Joanna The situation is *much* more complicated than that... The large Geluk monasteries such as Sera are divided into "Colllges" (grwa tshang), which are further sub-divided into numerous "houses" (khang tshan). [You can find quite a bit of information about the traditional structure of Sera in Tibet at ] Sera monastery which has been re-established in Karnataka has two "colleges" Chey /Je (byes) and Mey (smad) - which are further divided into 30 or 40 "regional houses" or khangtsen (khang tshan). Monks who come to study or stay at large monasteries like Sera will usually stay in a khangtsen associated with the region of Tibet they come from. Each college of Sera has its own curriculum text books, main temple and rituals. The regional houses also have their own temples, incarnate lamas, tutors, text books written by former scholars of that khangtsen, - and their own rituals and protective deities. These protective deities were often originally local deities associated with the region or regional monastery with which the particular khang tshan is allied - In some cases this is the spirit of a powerful lama or figure associated with that region who died a violent death. As you might expect there is great rivalry not only between the three great state monasteries but between the colleges in each monastery and between the individual kangtsen within the colleges. Monks can be almost fanatically loyal to their college and Kangtsen - it is their family & represents their tribe. These dharma protectors associated with each kangtsen are their totems - if a particular khangtsen becomes rich or influential - or if their scholars are successful in debate - this may be attributed to the power of their particular protective deities. If there is misfortune Phabongkhapa who first popularised this practice was a lama of Sera Mey. These days in Sera the practice or invocation of the "protector" Shugden is *particularly* associated with Pomara kangtsen of Sera Mey college. This kangtsen has a large temple dedicated to the protector Shugden. One of the main incarnate lamas of this kangtsen resides in Taiwan where he has many wealthy patrons who also support the Pomra house in Sera. The monks of this khangtsen have resolutely refused to give up the invocation of this protector - or even to be quiet about it. Although individual lamas in other parts of Sera undoubtedly still invoke this deity regularly in private - Pomara Kangtsen is probably now the only section of the monastery which does so publicly. The practice of this protector has also also been very strong in certain sections of Ganden monastery in Mungod - particularly amongst followers of the late Zong Rinpoche and the late Zeme Rinpoche. At one time there was a very large image and Temple devoted to this diety at Ganden. Shugden has also been also popular with certain wealthy Tibetan business people who attribute their success & fortune to the power of this protector diety. > Is China supporting the > Shugdens, or not? China naturally does whatever it can to cause disharmony within the Tibbetan exile community and to try discredit the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government in Exile - this controversy has been a golden opportunity for them. It is said that China gives money to various pro Shugden lamas - that they can get visas to visit Tibet easily - and even that China will pay for these trips. I don't know what the truth of any of this is. Do a search on "Gyaiqen Xudain" - which seems to be the Pinyin spelling for "Gyalchen Shugden"... - Chris -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 19 09:09:00 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 19 09:09:34 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Does robots have consciousness? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47E12C8C.1020709@cola.iges.org> Lord Buddha protect us and save us from this!!!! My favorite headline about this phenomenon so far is "Relentless headless dog robot spells doom for human race." As far as consciousness goes, though, keep in mind that the field of Artificial Intelligence grew out of the earliest beginnings in computer science over half a century ago. Today we now have computers that can play chess, but none that can beat a human at bridge - and we now have a robot that can simulate some of the activity of a reptilian brain. But still nothing like actual "consciousness". When a computer and/or robot possesses consciousness we will know it because it will tells us so. Even more convincing would be a computer that is capable of asking itself the question "am I conscious - and if so, what does that mean.... and who the hell am I, anyway?" Curt Steinmetz Wong Weng Fai wrote: > > We are pretty near the Star Wars/Matrix era... > > http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mmVaLp8icoU > > W.F. Wong > > Note: The company is a spin-off from MIT Legs Lab. The project is > funded by DARPA. No prize for guessing the intended use of this thing. > Imagine an Iraq war with zero American casualties coz only robots are > used. > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From franz at mind2mind.net Wed Mar 19 11:35:09 2008 From: franz at mind2mind.net (Franz Metcalf) Date: Wed Mar 19 11:35:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Does robots have consciousness? In-Reply-To: <47E12C8C.1020709@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E12C8C.1020709@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <33221736-C7C6-4EE8-836F-26A61E3B488E@mind2mind.net> Gang, I'm fiddling with ideas and videos while Tibet burns, so when Curt wrote, > When a computer and/or robot possesses consciousness we will know it > because it will tell us so. Even more convincing would be a computer > that is capable of asking itself the question "am I conscious - and > if so, what does that mean.... and who the hell am I, anyway?" and when Weng Fai wrote, > In my humble opinion, the bigger threat to Tibetan culture and way > of life (as with most of the rest of the world) in the long run is > Hollywoodization, Disneyization, MacDonaldization, Californication > and the like. The Chinese themselves are losing this battle. I was a bit surprised. It seemed that talk on buddha-l had turned disturbingly to me. As a Hollywood, California Buddhist who owns an annual pass to Disneyland and can't figure out if I'm a robot or not or who hell I am, anyway, I must say "I resemble that remark!" Franz (who at least hasn't been to McDonald's in years) From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 19 13:11:10 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 19 13:11:39 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibetans are still fighting Message-ID: <47E1654E.3050303@cola.iges.org> In Gansu province, which isn't even part of the "Tibet Autonomous Zone" a crowd of over a thousand people tried to storm and government building - part of this was filmed by a Canadian crew: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/19/tibet.unrest/index.html I would respectfully suggest that non-Tibetans refrain from hand-wringing over "violence" committed by Tibetans and also refrain from side-line quarter-backing in general. We should simply support the Tibetans in their struggle for freedom - and condemn the Chinese in unequivocal terms. google search results for "tibetans defy crackdown": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tibetans+defy+crackdown&btnG=Google+Search Curt Steinmetz From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 19 15:35:42 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 19 15:36:16 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibetans are still fighting In-Reply-To: <47E1654E.3050303@cola.iges.org> References: <47E1654E.3050303@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47E1872E.4030403@cola.iges.org> Another report from Gansu province: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7305362.stm Curt Curt Steinmetz wrote: > In Gansu province, which isn't even part of the "Tibet Autonomous > Zone" a crowd of over a thousand people tried to storm and government > building - part of this was filmed by a Canadian crew: > http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/19/tibet.unrest/index.html > > I would respectfully suggest that non-Tibetans refrain from > hand-wringing over "violence" committed by Tibetans and also refrain > from side-line quarter-backing in general. We should simply support > the Tibetans in their struggle for freedom - and condemn the Chinese > in unequivocal terms. > > google search results for "tibetans defy crackdown": > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tibetans+defy+crackdown&btnG=Google+Search > > > Curt Steinmetz > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 19 17:03:37 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 19 17:03:40 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibetans are still fighting In-Reply-To: <47E1654E.3050303@cola.iges.org> References: <47E1654E.3050303@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <002d01c88a15$76ec67d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> "and also refrain from side-line quarter-backing in general."-- haven't noticed anyone on this list doing that~~~~~~ JK =================================== I would respectfully suggest that non-Tibetans refrain from hand-wringing over "violence" committed by Tibetans and also refrain from side-line quarter-backing in general. We should simply support the Tibetans in their struggle for freedom - and condemn the Chinese in unequivocal terms. google search results for "tibetans defy crackdown": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tibetans+defy+crackdown&btnG=Google+Sea rch Curt Steinmetz _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM From cfynn at gmx.net Wed Mar 19 23:35:00 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed Mar 19 23:35:05 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Does robots have consciousness? In-Reply-To: <33221736-C7C6-4EE8-836F-26A61E3B488E@mind2mind.net> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E12C8C.1020709@cola.iges.org> <33221736-C7C6-4EE8-836F-26A61E3B488E@mind2mind.net> Message-ID: <47E1F784.7020205@gmx.net> << When a computer and/or robot possesses consciousness we will know it because it will tell us so. Even more convincing would be a computer that is capable of asking itself the question "am I conscious - and if so, what does that mean.... and who the hell am I, anyway?" >> More than 35 years ago I recall someone asking the Tibetan lama Kalu Rinpoche about the possibility of conciousness in computers robots etc. and he replied that if the conditions to support conciousness existed - whether natural or artificial - a sentient being could take rebirth there. So if someone could build a robot capable of supporting conciousness then conciousness could "enter" that robot - as far as he was concerned it was possible for a being to take rebirth in/as that robot. Some Tibetan texts, including Gampopa's "Jewel Ornament" refer to actions causing beings to take rebirth in "occasional hells" where conciousness is attached to some inanimate object. - Chris -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From curt at cola.iges.org Thu Mar 20 06:17:02 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Thu Mar 20 06:17:13 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Does robots have consciousness? In-Reply-To: <47E1F784.7020205@gmx.net> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E12C8C.1020709@cola.iges.org> <33221736-C7C6-4EE8-836F-26A61E3B488E@mind2mind.net> <47E1F784.7020205@gmx.net> Message-ID: <47E255BE.5050400@cola.iges.org> "Occasional Hell" would be a great title for a sci-fi novel about a consciousness attached to an inanimate object. Curt Christopher Fynn wrote: > << When a computer and/or robot possesses consciousness we will know > it because it will tell us so. Even more convincing would be a > computer that is capable of asking itself the question "am I conscious > - and if so, what does that mean.... and who the hell am I, anyway?" >> > > More than 35 years ago I recall someone asking the Tibetan lama Kalu > Rinpoche about the possibility of conciousness in computers robots > etc. and he replied that if the conditions to support conciousness > existed - whether natural or artificial - a sentient being could take > rebirth there. So if someone could build a robot capable of supporting > conciousness then conciousness could "enter" that robot - as far as he > was concerned it was possible for a being to take rebirth in/as that > robot. > > Some Tibetan texts, including Gampopa's "Jewel Ornament" refer to > actions causing beings to take rebirth in "occasional hells" where > conciousness is attached to some inanimate object. > > > - Chris > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From curt at cola.iges.org Thu Mar 20 12:42:32 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Thu Mar 20 12:42:43 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] "china tensions could sway taiwan vote" Message-ID: <47E2B018.2000405@cola.iges.org> A google news search on "taiwan tibet" yields lots of interesting results: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&safe=off&q=taiwan+tibet&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn Chinese Buddhism is not as sexy to westerners as Tibetan Buddhism - but probably 90% of Taiwan's population are Buddhist - which adds significantly to their interest in events in Tibet. Curt Steinmetz From jkirk at spro.net Thu Mar 20 15:06:17 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Thu Mar 20 15:06:25 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] "china tensions could sway taiwan vote" In-Reply-To: <47E2B018.2000405@cola.iges.org> References: <47E2B018.2000405@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <004e01c88ace$3db0eb80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Here a couple more links: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gGU1XdWm393mpTMNn8B43v5VbmbAD8VHBGJ80 http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/20/content_7829020.htm Joanna ========================================================= A google news search on "taiwan tibet" yields lots of interesting results: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&safe=off&q=taiwan+tibet&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N &tab=wn Chinese Buddhism is not as sexy to westerners as Tibetan Buddhism - but probably 90% of Taiwan's population are Buddhist - which adds significantly to their interest in events in Tibet. Curt Steinmetz _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM From cfynn at gmx.net Thu Mar 20 21:36:05 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Thu Mar 20 21:36:21 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] "china tensions could sway taiwan vote" In-Reply-To: <47E2B018.2000405@cola.iges.org> References: <47E2B018.2000405@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47E32D25.7080808@gmx.net> Curt Steinmetz wrote: ... > Chinese Buddhism is not as sexy to westerners as Tibetan Buddhism - but > probably 90% of Taiwan's population are Buddhist - which adds > significantly to their interest in events in Tibet. Chinese in Taiwan are also the biggest patrons of Tibetan Buddhist lamas and there are innumerable Tibetan Buddhist centres in Taiwan. - Chris From cfynn at gmx.net Fri Mar 21 07:47:45 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Fri Mar 21 07:48:01 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> 'Beijing orchestrating Tibet riots' Canada Free Press[Friday, March 21, 2008 10:20] *Brit spies confirm Dalai Lama's report of staged violence* By Gordon Thomas London, March 20 - Britain?s GCHQ, the government communications agency that electronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed the claim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People?s Liberation Army, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured. GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculated by the Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out the simmering unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcome world attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer. For weeks there has been growing resentment in Lhasa, Tibet?s capital, against minor actions taken by the Chinese authorities. Increasingly, monks have led acts of civil disobedience, demanding the right to perform traditional incense burning rituals. With their demands go cries for the return of the Dalai Lama, the 14th to hold the high spiritual office. Committed to teaching the tenets of his moral authority?peace and compassion?the Dalai Lama was 14 when the PLA invaded Tibet in 1950 and he was forced to flee to India from where he has run a relentless campaign against the harshness of Chinese rule. He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, the year of the Tiananmen Square massacre. But critics have objected to his attraction to film stars. Newspaper magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: ?A very political monk in Gucci shoes.? Discovering that his supporters inside Tibet and China would become even more active in the months approaching the Olympic Games this summer, British intelligence officers in Beijing learned the ruling regime would seek an excuse to move and crush the present unrest. That fear was publicly expressed by the Dalai Lama. GCHQ?s satellites, geo-positioned in space, were tasked to closely monitor the situation. The doughnut-shaped complex, near Cheltenham racecourse, is set in the pleasant Cotswolds in the west of England. Seven thousand employees include the best electronic experts and analysts in the world. Between them they speak more than 150 languages. At their disposal are 10,000 computers, many of which have been specially built for their work. The images they downloaded from the satellites provided confirmation the Chinese used agent provocateurs to start riots, which gave the PLA the excuse to move on Lhasa to kill and wound over the past week. What the Beijing regime had not expected was how the riots would spread, not only across Tibet, but also to Sichuan, Quighai and Gansu provinces, turning a large area of western China into a battle zone. The Dalai Lama has called it ?cultural genocide? and has offered to resign as head of the protests against Chinese rule in order to bring peace. The current unrest began on March 10, marking the anniversary of the 1959 Uprising against Chinese rule. However, his followers are not listening to his ?message of compassion.? Many of them are young, unemployed and dispossessed and reject his philosophy of non-violence, believing the only hope for change is the radical action they are now carrying out. For Beijing, the urgent need to find a solution to the uprising is one of growing embarrassment. In two weeks time, the national celebrations for the Olympic Games start with the traditional torch relay. The torch bearers are scheduled to pass through Tibet. But the torch could find itself being carried by runners past burning buildings and temples. A sign of this urgency is that the Chinese prime minister has now said he is prepared to hold talks with the Dalai Lama. Just before this announcement, Britain?s Prime Minister Gordon Brown declared he would meet the Dalai Lama, who is to visit London next month. This is the first time either leader has proposed to meet the Dalai Lama. /Gordon Thomas is the author of the newly published Secrets & Lies: A History of CIA Mind Control and Germ Warfare (Octavo Editions, USA) and the forthcoming Inside British Intelligence (JR Books, UK). / -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From curt at cola.iges.org Fri Mar 21 08:01:56 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Fri Mar 21 08:02:11 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> Message-ID: <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org> No one should doubt that the Chinese have used agent-provocateurs and every other conceivable dirty trick against Tibetans fighting for their freedom. But the idea that spy satellite images can "confirm" the identity of who exactly started a riot down on earth is just patently ridiculous. Gordon Thomas is best known for his works of fiction - this appears to be one of them. Curt Steinmetz Christopher Fynn wrote: > > 'Beijing orchestrating Tibet riots' > > Canada Free Press[Friday, March 21, 2008 10:20] > *Brit spies confirm Dalai Lama's report of staged violence* > > By Gordon Thomas > > London, March 20 - Britain?s GCHQ, the government communications agency > that electronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed > the claim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People?s > Liberation Army, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have > left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured. > > GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculated by the > Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out the simmering > unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcome world > attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer. > > For weeks there has been growing resentment in Lhasa, Tibet?s capital, > against minor actions taken by the Chinese authorities. > > Increasingly, monks have led acts of civil disobedience, demanding the > right to perform traditional incense burning rituals. With their demands > go cries for the return of the Dalai Lama, the 14th to hold the high > spiritual office. > > Committed to teaching the tenets of his moral authority?peace and > compassion?the Dalai Lama was 14 when the PLA invaded Tibet in 1950 and > he was forced to flee to India from where he has run a relentless > campaign against the harshness of Chinese rule. > > He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, the year of the Tiananmen > Square massacre. > > But critics have objected to his attraction to film stars. Newspaper > magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: ?A very political monk in Gucci > shoes.? > > Discovering that his supporters inside Tibet and China would become even > more active in the months approaching the Olympic Games this summer, > British intelligence officers in Beijing learned the ruling regime would > seek an excuse to move and crush the present unrest. > > That fear was publicly expressed by the Dalai Lama. GCHQ?s satellites, > geo-positioned in space, were tasked to closely monitor the situation. > > The doughnut-shaped complex, near Cheltenham racecourse, is set in the > pleasant Cotswolds in the west of England. Seven thousand employees > include the best electronic experts and analysts in the world. Between > them they speak more than 150 languages. At their disposal are 10,000 > computers, many of which have been specially built for their work. > > The images they downloaded from the satellites provided confirmation the > Chinese used agent provocateurs to start riots, which gave the PLA the > excuse to move on Lhasa to kill and wound over the past week. > > What the Beijing regime had not expected was how the riots would spread, > not only across Tibet, but also to Sichuan, Quighai and Gansu provinces, > turning a large area of western China into a battle zone. > > The Dalai Lama has called it ?cultural genocide? and has offered to > resign as head of the protests against Chinese rule in order to bring > peace. The current unrest began on March 10, marking the anniversary of > the 1959 Uprising against Chinese rule. > > However, his followers are not listening to his ?message of compassion.? > Many of them are young, unemployed and dispossessed and reject his > philosophy of non-violence, believing the only hope for change is the > radical action they are now carrying out. > > For Beijing, the urgent need to find a solution to the uprising is one > of growing embarrassment. In two weeks time, the national celebrations > for the Olympic Games start with the traditional torch relay. The torch > bearers are scheduled to pass through Tibet. But the torch could find > itself being carried by runners past burning buildings and temples. > > A sign of this urgency is that the Chinese prime minister has now said > he is prepared to hold talks with the Dalai Lama. Just before this > announcement, Britain?s Prime Minister Gordon Brown declared he would > meet the Dalai Lama, who is to visit London next month. This is the > first time either leader has proposed to meet the Dalai Lama. > > /Gordon Thomas is the author of the newly published Secrets & Lies: A > History of CIA Mind Control and Germ Warfare (Octavo Editions, USA) and > the forthcoming Inside British Intelligence (JR Books, UK). / > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From cfynn at gmx.net Fri Mar 21 09:36:15 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Fri Mar 21 09:36:24 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> Curt Steinmetz wrote: > No one should doubt that the Chinese have used agent-provocateurs and > every other conceivable dirty trick against Tibetans fighting for their > freedom. > But the idea that spy satellite images can "confirm" the identity of who > exactly started a riot down on earth is just patently ridiculous. Gordon > Thomas is best known for his works of fiction - this appears to be one > of them. GCHQ is an agency for monitoring signals - stuff like radio messages, phone communications etc. A lot of what they do is for the US because much of the monitoring of personal communications they do would be illegal in the states - but it is OK under UK law. Of course much of this monitoring is now done via satellite. GCHQ wouldn't need all the linguists they employ if they were mostly looking at images. If GCHQ does know anything about the situation in Tibet it would primarily have to come from their remote monitoring of Chinese police / military / government communications. Anything else they might be able to garner from sattelite images would just be for confirmation of that. Anyway let's hope this story is as you suggest fiction by Gordon Thomas. Could the story itself even be something floated on behalf of the Chinese to confuse the whole issue? - C -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From curt at cola.iges.org Fri Mar 21 09:50:16 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Fri Mar 21 09:50:26 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org> <47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> Message-ID: <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org> The Tibetan Freedom Movement appears to be undergoing a dramatic resurgence, after a 49 year Bardo. The Chinese are masters of propopanda - and they would like nothing better than to convince Tibetans (and everyone else) that the leaders of this resurgence are just Chinese agents. At the same time I am sure that there are lots of Chinese spies among the Tibetans. One of the first things the Chinese did back in 1950 was to actively recruit supporters among Tibetans. Curt Christopher Fynn wrote: > > Anyway let's hope this story is as you suggest fiction by Gordon > Thomas. Could the story itself even be something floated on behalf of > the Chinese to confuse the whole issue? > From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 21 10:57:24 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 21 10:57:28 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> Message-ID: <00a701c88b74$a31e7a90$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> *Expletive deleted* journalists: " Newspaper magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: ?A very political monk in Gucci shoes.? My announcement of a USA appearance photo shows HHDL wearing flip flops. Rupert Murdoch is part of the legions of Mara. Also, HHDL is not :"attracted to" film stars--what an asinine way to put it--they are significant contributors to his Save Tibet campaign. As he IS political because he's both a spiritual and a temporal leader, he has to do fund raising. Duh. Joanna =================================== 'Beijing orchestrating Tibet riots' Canada Free Press[Friday, March 21, 2008 10:20] *Brit spies confirm Dalai Lama's report of staged violence* By Gordon Thomas London, March 20 - Britain?s GCHQ, the government communications agency that electronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed the claim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People?s Liberation Army, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured. GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculated by the Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out the simmering unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcome world attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer. For weeks there has been growing resentment in Lhasa, Tibet?s capital, against minor actions taken by the Chinese authorities. Increasingly, monks have led acts of civil disobedience, demanding the right to perform traditional incense burning rituals. With their demands go cries for the return of the Dalai Lama, the 14th to hold the high spiritual office. Committed to teaching the tenets of his moral authority?peace and compassion?the Dalai Lama was 14 when the PLA invaded Tibet in 1950 and he was forced to flee to India from where he has run a relentless campaign against the harshness of Chinese rule. He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, the year of the Tiananmen Square massacre. But critics have objected to his attraction to film stars. Newspaper magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: ?A very political monk in Gucci shoes.? Discovering that his supporters inside Tibet and China would become even more active in the months approaching the Olympic Games this summer, British intelligence officers in Beijing learned the ruling regime would seek an excuse to move and crush the present unrest. That fear was publicly expressed by the Dalai Lama. GCHQ?s satellites, geo-positioned in space, were tasked to closely monitor the situation. The doughnut-shaped complex, near Cheltenham racecourse, is set in the pleasant Cotswolds in the west of England. Seven thousand employees include the best electronic experts and analysts in the world. Between them they speak more than 150 languages. At their disposal are 10,000 computers, many of which have been specially built for their work. The images they downloaded from the satellites provided confirmation the Chinese used agent provocateurs to start riots, which gave the PLA the excuse to move on Lhasa to kill and wound over the past week. What the Beijing regime had not expected was how the riots would spread, not only across Tibet, but also to Sichuan, Quighai and Gansu provinces, turning a large area of western China into a battle zone. The Dalai Lama has called it ?cultural genocide? and has offered to resign as head of the protests against Chinese rule in order to bring peace. The current unrest began on March 10, marking the anniversary of the 1959 Uprising against Chinese rule. However, his followers are not listening to his ?message of compassion.? Many of them are young, unemployed and dispossessed and reject his philosophy of non-violence, believing the only hope for change is the radical action they are now carrying out. For Beijing, the urgent need to find a solution to the uprising is one of growing embarrassment. In two weeks time, the national celebrations for the Olympic Games start with the traditional torch relay. The torch bearers are scheduled to pass through Tibet. But the torch could find itself being carried by runners past burning buildings and temples. A sign of this urgency is that the Chinese prime minister has now said he is prepared to hold talks with the Dalai Lama. Just before this announcement, Britain?s Prime Minister Gordon Brown declared he would meet the Dalai Lama, who is to visit London next month. This is the first time either leader has proposed to meet the Dalai Lama. /Gordon Thomas is the author of the newly published Secrets & Lies: A History of CIA Mind Control and Germ Warfare (Octavo Editions, USA) and the forthcoming Inside British Intelligence (JR Books, UK). / No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 21 11:37:37 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 21 11:37:39 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <00a701c88b74$a31e7a90$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org><47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <00a701c88b74$a31e7a90$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <00bc01c88b7a$41579930$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Well, not all journalists: see this BBC article on Nancy Pelosi visiting HHDL http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7308169.stm ======================================= *Expletive deleted* journalists: " Newspaper magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: ?A very political monk in Gucci shoes.? My announcement of a USA appearance photo shows HHDL wearing flip flops. Rupert Murdoch is part of the legions of Mara. Also, HHDL is not :"attracted to" film stars--what an asinine way to put it--they are significant contributors to his Save Tibet campaign. As he IS political because he's both a spiritual and a temporal leader, he has to do fund raising. Duh. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 21 12:01:22 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 21 12:01:25 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org><47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <00ec01c88b7d$92ba12a0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> I don't 'get" why this tactic makes any sense. They seem to be working on claiming that HHDL is the mastermind of protests. Joanna Propapanda?--hm--a nice way of saying Chinese propaganda? ------------ "The Chinese are masters of propopanda - and they would like nothing better than to convince Tibetans (and everyone else) that the leaders of this resurgence are just Chinese agents." No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM From bclough at aucegypt.edu Fri Mar 21 12:01:46 2008 From: bclough at aucegypt.edu (bclough) Date: Fri Mar 21 12:04:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Sri Lanka Conference Message-ID: Dear All, See an announcement for an upcoming Buddhist Studies conference in Sri Lanka below. I'm wondering if anyone else is like me--wanting very much to attend, but finding the date very inconvenient because it falls at a time when many Westerners--regardless of religious affiliation--are with family. I have written them, humbly suggesting a possible change of date. Perhaps if others also did so, we might be able to make a change happen (they provide a conference email address below). Best Wishes, Brad Clough -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sri Lanka Association for Buddhist Studies The Third Biannual International Conference December 26-28, 2008 at Buddhasravaka Bhiksu University, Anuradhapura Sri Lanka Biannual International Conference Sri Lanka Association for Buddhist Studies (SLABS) is the professional body of academics in the field of Buddhist Studies in Sri Lanka and has been in existence since 2002. It functions as the coordinating body of the academics in the field of Buddhist studies in Sri Lanka. In addition to the biannual international conference, SLABS publishes academic books, issues a newsletter thrice a year and organizes occasional min-conferences, seminars, workshops, and guest lectures at Sri Lanka's higher educational institutions. The First International Conference of SLABS was held in 2003 in Kandy at Palipane Sri Chandananda International Buddhist Centre and the second in 2006 at the University of Peradeniya. Conference Site The third conference will be held in the magnificent ancient city of Anuradhapura, a world heritage city located 205 km from Colombo, where many architectural wonders have been constructed from the 5th century BCE to the 10th century ACE. The temperature in Anuradhapura is usually warm, averaging around 28C (84-85F). The city attracts a large number of local pilgrims, visitors and foreign tourists due to its historical significance and the magnificent archeological sites. The Buddhasravaka Bhiksu University, Sri Lanka's first modern university exclusively for Buddhist monks, is located in the midst of these ancient archeological monuments, and the conference will attempt to take advantage of this location by arranging tours of the site, museum, and nearby Mihintale, a rock-monastic complex, the birth-place of Sri Lankan Buddhism. An excursion to the historical cities of Polonnaruwa and Dambulla can also be planned if sufficient interest is shown. Conference Theme Studies in Buddhist Thought, History and Culture: Recent Trends Language The conference will be conducted in English. Papers could also be presented in Sinhala. Key Dates to Remember September 30, 2008 ? Last day to submit abstracts October 30, 2008 ? Last day for registration December 26, 27, 28, 2008 ? Conference Registration commences from the 1st of March, and you are encouraged to register as early as possible. Call for Papers and Posters Papers or poster presentations or proposals for panel discussions are invited in any area of Buddhist Studies. Accommodation and Travel During the three days of the conference, all participants will be provided with accommodations, meals, refreshments, conference materials, and a copy of the booklet of abstracts. Travel from and back to Colombo will be provided for all participants. The participants should register on or before October 30, 2008. Registration Fee Rs. 1500 Local participants and foreign students residing in Sri Lanka US $ 50 Participants from SAARC countries US $ 100 Participants from all other countries Payment can be made by money order/bank draft written in favour of Treasurer, Sri Lanka Association for Buddhist Studies (SLABS). Cash payments are accepted at the Buddhasravaka Bhiksu University, Anuradhapura; Department of Pali and Buddhist Studies, University of Peradeniya; Unit of Pali and Buddhist Studies, Department of Sinhala, University of Colombo. Foreign Participants Travel to Anuradhapura from the airport/Colombo and return will be arranged. Documentation to fulfill visa requirements will be provided upon request. Accommodation Accommodation with limited facilities will be provided to all pre- registered participants free of charge. Address for Correspondence slabsconference2008@gmail.com SLABS Conference Secretariat Buddhasravaka Bhiksu University Nandana Mawatha Anuradhapura Sri Lanka First Announcement released: March 1, 2008 With best regards Min Bahadur shakya www.nagarjunainstitute.com Bradley S. Clough Abdulhadi H. Taher Chair in Comparative Religion The American University in Cairo From curt at cola.iges.org Fri Mar 21 13:03:58 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Fri Mar 21 13:04:13 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <00ec01c88b7d$92ba12a0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org><47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org> <00ec01c88b7d$92ba12a0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47E4069E.2020309@cola.iges.org> The original article comes from a right-wing Christian fundamentalist outfit based in Canada ( see: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/categories/C11 ). The article is written by a sensationalist hack-writer with connections to the Mossad and British intelligence. The article is also prominently featured at two other other right-wing Christian nutjob websites: "freedomthirst.com" (whose motto is "it was for freedom that Christ set us free..."), and g2.wnd.com (run by evangelical christian Joseph Farah who was part of the Arkansas Project) - and has been virtually ignored by the rest of the world. Gordon Thomas' "article" has the look, feel and smell of deliberate dis-information. Probably a slap-dash joint project by very-low-level folks at MI6 and Unit 8341 of the PLA. The point of the dis-information is to try to dampen support for the uprising that has been happening in Tibet for going on two-weeks now. Right-wing Christian nutjobs want ALL of China to themselves - they do not want any competition from Buddhists. So they want to discredit what is going on now. I can neither confirm nor deny that any of the above reflects my actual beliefs or knowledge. This conversation never happened. Curt jkirk wrote: > I don't 'get" why this tactic makes any sense. They seem to be working on > claiming that HHDL is the mastermind of protests. Joanna > Propapanda?--hm--a nice way of saying Chinese propaganda? > ------------ > > "The Chinese are masters of propopanda - and they would like nothing better > than to convince Tibetans (and everyone else) that the leaders of this > resurgence are just Chinese agents." > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 > 8:10 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 21 13:13:14 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 21 13:13:13 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <47E4069E.2020309@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org><47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org><00ec01c88b7d$92ba12a0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47E4069E.2020309@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <002201c88b87$9c94c360$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Wow--what a pilgrimage of reading in order for me to 'get it"! Cautionary tale of how nut-job the web really is. Joanna ==================================== The original article comes from a right-wing Christian fundamentalist outfit based in Canada ( see: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/categories/C11 ). The article is written by a sensationalist hack-writer with connections to the Mossad and British intelligence. The article is also prominently featured at two other other right-wing Christian nutjob websites: "freedomthirst.com" (whose motto is "it was for freedom that Christ set us free..."), and g2.wnd.com (run by evangelical christian Joseph Farah who was part of the Arkansas Project) - and has been virtually ignored by the rest of the world. Gordon Thomas' "article" has the look, feel and smell of deliberate dis-information. Probably a slap-dash joint project by very-low-level folks at MI6 and Unit 8341 of the PLA. The point of the dis-information is to try to dampen support for the uprising that has been happening in Tibet for going on two-weeks now. Right-wing Christian nutjobs want ALL of China to themselves - they do not want any competition from Buddhists. So they want to discredit what is going on now. I can neither confirm nor deny that any of the above reflects my actual beliefs or knowledge. This conversation never happened. Curt jkirk wrote: > I don't 'get" why this tactic makes any sense. They seem to be > working on claiming that HHDL is the mastermind of protests. Joanna > Propapanda?--hm--a nice way of saying Chinese propaganda? > ------------ > > "The Chinese are masters of propopanda - and they would like nothing > better than to convince Tibetans (and everyone else) that the leaders > of this resurgence are just Chinese agents." > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: > 3/20/2008 8:10 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM From curt at cola.iges.org Fri Mar 21 13:19:09 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Fri Mar 21 13:19:30 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: staged violence? In-Reply-To: <002201c88b87$9c94c360$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org><47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org><00ec01c88b7d$92ba12a0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47E4069E.2020309@cola.iges.org> <002201c88b87$9c94c360$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <47E40A2D.7020506@cola.iges.org> I admit it - I have a weakness of this kind of thing. But it wasn't that much work - the "Canadafreepress" website has a sulphurous smell to it, bigtime....... Curt jkirk wrote: > Wow--what a pilgrimage of reading in order for me to 'get it"! > > Cautionary tale of how nut-job the web really is. > Joanna > ==================================== > > > The original article comes from a right-wing Christian fundamentalist outfit > based in Canada ( see: > http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/categories/C11 ). The article is > written by a sensationalist hack-writer with connections to the Mossad and > British intelligence. > > The article is also prominently featured at two other other right-wing > Christian nutjob websites: "freedomthirst.com" (whose motto is "it was for > freedom that Christ set us free..."), and g2.wnd.com (run by evangelical > christian Joseph Farah who was part of the Arkansas Project) > - and has been virtually ignored by the rest of the world. > > Gordon Thomas' "article" has the look, feel and smell of deliberate > dis-information. Probably a slap-dash joint project by very-low-level folks > at MI6 and Unit 8341 of the PLA. > > The point of the dis-information is to try to dampen support for the > uprising that has been happening in Tibet for going on two-weeks now. > Right-wing Christian nutjobs want ALL of China to themselves - they do not > want any competition from Buddhists. So they want to discredit what is going > on now. > > I can neither confirm nor deny that any of the above reflects my actual > beliefs or knowledge. This conversation never happened. > > Curt > > jkirk wrote: > >> I don't 'get" why this tactic makes any sense. They seem to be >> working on claiming that HHDL is the mastermind of protests. Joanna >> Propapanda?--hm--a nice way of saying Chinese propaganda? >> ------------ >> >> "The Chinese are masters of propopanda - and they would like nothing >> better than to convince Tibetans (and everyone else) that the leaders >> of this resurgence are just Chinese agents." >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: >> 3/20/2008 8:10 PM >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> buddha-l mailing list >> buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com >> http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 > 8:10 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 > 8:10 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From roblev at sonic.net Wed Mar 19 16:03:32 2008 From: roblev at sonic.net (Robert Leverant) Date: Fri Mar 21 19:46:16 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet Uprisings Message-ID: Check out the Guardian, UK 3/19/08 http://www.guardian.co.uk/ Articles, videos, photographs, op-ed China issues list of wanted protesters Pictures released of 12 people wanted in connection with Tibet disturbances Beijing 'concerned' over PM's Dalai Lama pledge News blog: latest developments in Tibet 'They say a thousand have been rounded up' Wikileaks defies 'great firewall of China' Olympic torch will go up Everest, organisers insist Simon Tisdall: The three monkeys policy Interactive guide: Unrest in Tibet China takes Tibetan 'rioters' into custody From roblev at sonic.net Thu Mar 20 13:20:08 2008 From: roblev at sonic.net (Robert Leverant) Date: Fri Mar 21 19:46:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ Message-ID: A portrait of Gendun Choephel (1903-1951), a legendary figure in Tibet, who was opposed to both the religious elite and to forced Chinese assimilation. Has any one seen this film? Which portrays the shadow of T. Buddhism?, a subject that I've been interested in. The shadow seems to show its face during a succession; then there is violence between the warring monks who have done years of practice. Or mysterious deaths of a high lama, say an auto accident. Teachers that I ask what about the unconscious don't give it much weight, if at all. The most is the subconscious whose descriptive is reeds resting on water which seeps up into the mind stream. I would appreciate if you can direct me to references/writings/teaching to on "the unconscious" wo Then there are barbarous acts worthy of the Spanish Inquisition overseen by high lamas. See: Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth by Michael Parenti http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html We do idealize and ?hadgud Rimpoche wrote a book in part to demystify and show Westerners what Tibet was really like. I think it is LORD OF THE DANCE. Input and comments? Thanks, Robert PS. I'm not interested much about the USA, West where there has been a fair amount of Buddhist monk/teacher misconduct that has been aired: see Katy Butler's heartfelt article ?The Shadow of Buddhist America,? in Common Boundary, May-June (1990). And Ed Sanders, "The Great Naropa Poetry Wars." & Geoffrey D. Falks Stripping the Gurus: Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment http://www.strippingthegurus.com/index.html#stgtoc From cfynn at gmx.net Fri Mar 21 20:32:11 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Fri Mar 21 20:32:13 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Sri Lanka Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46048D90.5080107@gmx.net> bclough wrote: > Dear All, > See an announcement for an upcoming Buddhist Studies conference in > Sri Lanka below. > I'm wondering if anyone else is like me--wanting very much to attend, > but finding the date very inconvenient because it falls at a time > when many Westerners--regardless of religious affiliation--are with > family. I have written them, humbly suggesting a possible change of > date. Perhaps if others also did so, we might be able to make a > change happen (they provide a conference email address below). > > Best Wishes, > Brad Clough OTOH Sri Lanka might be a very nice place to take your family for the winter holidays. - An advantage is most people in the west do not have other commitments at work over that period. - Chris -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 21 22:10:09 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 21 22:10:08 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601c88bd2$9e591390$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Robert Leverant Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:20 PM To: buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ A portrait of Gendun Choephel (1903-1951), a legendary figure in Tibet, who was opposed to both the religious elite and to forced Chinese assimilation. Has any one seen this film? Which portrays the shadow of T. Buddhism?, a subject that I've been interested in. The shadow seems to show its face during a succession; then there is violence between the warring monks who have done years of practice. Or mysterious deaths of a high lama, say an auto accident. Teachers that I ask what about the unconscious don't give it much weight, if at all. The most is the subconscious whose descriptive is reeds resting on water which seeps up into the mind stream. I would appreciate if you can direct me to references/writings/teaching to on "the unconscious" wo Then there are barbarous acts worthy of the Spanish Inquisition overseen by high lamas. See: Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth by Michael Parenti http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html We do idealize and ?hadgud Rimpoche wrote a book in part to demystify and show Westerners what Tibet was really like. I think it is LORD OF THE DANCE. Input and comments? Thanks, Robert PS. I'm not interested much about the USA, West where there has been a fair amount of Buddhist monk/teacher misconduct that has been aired: see Katy Butler's heartfelt article ?The Shadow of Buddhist America,? in Common Boundary, May-June (1990). And Ed Sanders, "The Great Naropa Poetry Wars." & Geoffrey D. Falks Stripping the Gurus: Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment http://www.strippingthegurus.com/index.html#stgtoc _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM From jkirk at spro.net Fri Mar 21 22:14:18 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Fri Mar 21 22:14:16 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monkhttp://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ In-Reply-To: <001601c88bd2$9e591390$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <001601c88bd2$9e591390$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <001701c88bd3$33123250$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Sorry--accidental clicking of wrong button--JK =================== -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Robert Leverant Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:20 PM To: buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ A portrait of Gendun Choephel (1903-1951), a legendary figure in Tibet, who was opposed to both the religious elite and to forced Chinese assimilation. Has any one seen this film? Which portrays the shadow of T. Buddhism?, a subject that I've been interested in. The shadow seems to show its face during a succession; then there is violence between the warring monks who have done years of practice. Or mysterious deaths of a high lama, say an auto accident. Teachers that I ask what about the unconscious don't give it much weight, if at all. The most is the subconscious whose descriptive is reeds resting on water which seeps up into the mind stream. I would appreciate if you can direct me to references/writings/teaching to on "the unconscious" wo Then there are barbarous acts worthy of the Spanish Inquisition overseen by high lamas. See: Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth by Michael Parenti http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html We do idealize and ?hadgud Rimpoche wrote a book in part to demystify and show Westerners what Tibet was really like. I think it is LORD OF THE DANCE. Input and comments? Thanks, Robert PS. I'm not interested much about the USA, West where there has been a fair amount of Buddhist monk/teacher misconduct that has been aired: see Katy Butler's heartfelt article ?The Shadow of Buddhist America,? in Common Boundary, May-June (1990). And Ed Sanders, "The Great Naropa Poetry Wars." & Geoffrey D. Falks Stripping the Gurus: Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment http://www.strippingthegurus.com/index.html#stgtoc _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM From cfynn at gmx.net Mon Mar 24 01:53:35 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sat Mar 22 01:54:16 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47E75DFF.5090501@gmx.net> Robert Leverant wrote: > Then there are barbarous acts worthy of the Spanish Inquisition overseen by > high lamas. See: Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth by Michael Parenti > http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html Hi Robert Parenti's article reminds me of the publications about "Feudal Tibet" Maoist China produced in the 1960's - they even had a vividly illustrated full colour book of the exhibits in the "exhibition of torture" which he talks about Anna Louise Strong visiting. Overall this view of Tibet is just as fictitious as the Shangri-La myth. There is a rebuttal of Parenti's article at: - Chris -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From cfynn at gmx.net Mon Mar 24 01:54:45 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sat Mar 22 01:55:15 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet Uprisings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47E75E45.2060105@gmx.net> Visual comment... - Chris -------------- next part -------------- *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** From curt at cola.iges.org Sat Mar 22 06:16:26 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Sat Mar 22 06:16:41 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ In-Reply-To: <47E75DFF.5090501@gmx.net> References: <47E75DFF.5090501@gmx.net> Message-ID: <47E4F89A.1010707@cola.iges.org> >> Schaedler clearly has an agenda with this film to push his own ideal of a free Tibet. What he overlooks, however, is that the monks and the nuns and the monasteries are also an integral part of Tibetan culture. Before Buddhism came to Tibet, Tibet was historically a feared and war-mongering country that frequently raided other countries. The history of Tibet itself is very much about the pull of violence on one side and peace on the other. Schaedler could have done more justice to an overall perspective on Tibetan culture in the film by not deliberately excluding the point of view of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama or from Tibetan Buddhist monks and scholars with a different perspective than the scholars he chose to interview, who all, oddly enough, mirror Schaedler's own views on the necessity of preventing Tibetan culture from "stagnating". In his zest to make a different kind of documentary about Tibet, Schaedler goes too far in showing only the point of view that bolsters his own opinion, which ultimately weakens the film. As a result, Angry Monk becomes less a film about Gendun Choephel, the monk, the man, and the scholar, and more a film that uses Choephel's life as a metaphor to drive Schaedler's view on the politics of Tibet. << The above is taken from Kim Voynar's "Sundance Review" of the film "The Angry Monk" - the full review is here: http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=12,2214,0,0,1,0 Curt Steinmetz From jehms at xs4all.nl Sat Mar 22 07:34:46 2008 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Sat Mar 22 07:34:48 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ In-Reply-To: <47E4F89A.1010707@cola.iges.org> References: <47E75DFF.5090501@gmx.net> <47E4F89A.1010707@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47E50AF6.1020305@xs4all.nl> Curt Steinmetz schreef: > >> Schaedler clearly has an agenda with this film to push his own > ideal of a free Tibet. What he overlooks, however, is that the monks > and the nuns and the monasteries are also an integral part of Tibetan > culture. Before Buddhism came to Tibet, Tibet was historically a > feared and war-mongering country that frequently raided other > countries. The history of Tibet itself is very much about the pull of > violence on one side and peace on the other. Schaedler could have done > more justice to an overall perspective on Tibetan culture in the film > by not deliberately excluding the point of view of the Fourteenth > Dalai Lama or from Tibetan Buddhist monks and scholars with a > different perspective than the scholars he chose to interview, who > all, oddly enough, mirror Schaedler's own views on the necessity of > preventing Tibetan culture from "stagnating". > > In his zest to make a different kind of documentary about Tibet, > Schaedler goes too far in showing only the point of view that bolsters > his own opinion, which ultimately weakens the film. As a result, Angry > Monk becomes less a film about Gendun Choephel, the monk, the man, and > the scholar, and more a film that uses Choephel's life as a metaphor > to drive Schaedler's view on the politics of Tibet. << > > The above is taken from Kim Voynar's "Sundance Review" of the film > "The Angry Monk" - the full review is here: > http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=12,2214,0,0,1,0 > I watched the film twice and I disagree. I learned a lot about Gendun Choephel and I think that it is not at all a loss of quality when the maker of a documentary sympathizes with it's subject. It is clear that Gendun Choephel was not charmed by the conservatism and provincialism of the leading Tibetan monks and governement. Maybe he is right, maybe not, but his view deserves to be defended. Fact is that if Tibet had been less closed and xenofobic, it would have been a lot more difficult for the Chinese to invade. -- Erik Info: www.xs4all.nl/~jehms Weblog: http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/pub/blogs/blog.php?uid=2950 Productie: http://stores.lulu.com/jehmsstudio From jkirk at spro.net Sat Mar 22 10:34:47 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sat Mar 22 10:34:46 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The Angry Monkhttp://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ In-Reply-To: <47E75DFF.5090501@gmx.net> References: <47E75DFF.5090501@gmx.net> Message-ID: <004001c88c3a$a4b9a200$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Robert Leverant wrote: > Then there are barbarous acts worthy of the Spanish Inquisition > overseen by high lamas. See: Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth by > Michael Parenti http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html Hi Robert Parenti's article reminds me of the publications about "Feudal Tibet" Maoist China produced in the 1960's - they even had a vividly illustrated full colour book of the exhibits in the "exhibition of torture" which he talks about Anna Louise Strong visiting. Overall this view of Tibet is just as fictitious as the Shangri-La myth. There is a rebuttal of Parenti's article at: - Chris ========================= Hi Chris In my "redder days" back in the sixties I used to read Parenti like mad. Since then I grew up a bit. Thanks for posting a rebuttal of the Parenti citation on the list. Mine would not have been so equanimous. Just for fun I checked wikipedia for a Parenti entry and find that it is all pro-Parenti. Written by him? He early on became a Leninist and continues to be one to the present, but a lot of folks just coming across stuff written by him wouldn't know that, I guess. Best, Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM From jkirk at spro.net Sat Mar 22 10:36:30 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sat Mar 22 10:36:28 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Film: The AngryMonk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ In-Reply-To: <47E4F89A.1010707@cola.iges.org> References: <47E75DFF.5090501@gmx.net> <47E4F89A.1010707@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <004701c88c3a$e1c86e60$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Curt Steinmetz Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:16 AM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Film: The AngryMonk http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/the-angry-monk/ >> Schaedler clearly has an agenda with this film to push his own ideal of a free Tibet. What he overlooks, however, is that the monks and the nuns and the monasteries are also an integral part of Tibetan culture. Before Buddhism came to Tibet, Tibet was historically a feared and war-mongering country that frequently raided other countries. The history of Tibet itself is very much about the pull of violence on one side and peace on the other. Schaedler could have done more justice to an overall perspective on Tibetan culture in the film by not deliberately excluding the point of view of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama or from Tibetan Buddhist monks and scholars with a different perspective than the scholars he chose to interview, who all, oddly enough, mirror Schaedler's own views on the necessity of preventing Tibetan culture from "stagnating". In his zest to make a different kind of documentary about Tibet, Schaedler goes too far in showing only the point of view that bolsters his own opinion, which ultimately weakens the film. As a result, Angry Monk becomes less a film about Gendun Choephel, the monk, the man, and the scholar, and more a film that uses Choephel's life as a metaphor to drive Schaedler's view on the politics of Tibet. << The above is taken from Kim Voynar's "Sundance Review" of the film "The Angry Monk" - the full review is here: http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=12,2214,0,0,1,0 Curt Steinmetz _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM From gary.gach at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 10:40:31 2008 From: gary.gach at gmail.com (Gary Gach) Date: Sat Mar 22 10:40:35 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] unesco vesak Message-ID: <598baadd0803220940q401c4cb0rc0d3926d79206369@mail.gmail.com> anyone heard anything yet of unesco's vesak in vietnam? palms _/|\_ joined gary From jkirk at spro.net Sat Mar 22 10:54:34 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sat Mar 22 10:54:32 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] unesco vesak In-Reply-To: <598baadd0803220940q401c4cb0rc0d3926d79206369@mail.gmail.com> References: <598baadd0803220940q401c4cb0rc0d3926d79206369@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005701c88c3d$682136c0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> You mean this?: http://www.plumvillage.org/HTML/Invitation2008.html JK ======================================= anyone heard anything yet of unesco's vesak in vietnam? palms _/|\_ joined gary _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM From bhavana at bhavanahouse.org Sat Mar 22 11:06:41 2008 From: bhavana at bhavanahouse.org (Bhavana House) Date: Sat Mar 22 11:06:41 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] unesco vesak References: <598baadd0803220940q401c4cb0rc0d3926d79206369@mail.gmail.com> <005701c88c3d$682136c0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <003801c88c3f$197e3930$0100000a@itamar11> Try this one: http://www.vesakday2008.com/# Itamar ----- Original Message ----- From: "jkirk" To: "'Buddhist discussion forum'" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:54 PM Subject: RE: [Buddha-l] unesco vesak > You mean this?: > http://www.plumvillage.org/HTML/Invitation2008.html > > JK > ======================================= > > > anyone heard anything yet of unesco's vesak in vietnam? > > palms _/|\_ joined > > gary > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 > 5:52 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 > 5:52 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: > 21/03/2008 17:52 > > From parisjm2004 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 22 13:53:13 2008 From: parisjm2004 at yahoo.com (Michael Paris) Date: Sat Mar 22 13:53:18 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Life of Buddha by Tezuka In-Reply-To: <693720022@web.de> Message-ID: <267799.60382.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Buddhism and The Complete Idiot's Guide to Zen Living are also pretty fair reading. Michael --- Ralf Steckel wrote: > Hi Curt, > > i enjoy 'Buddhism for Dummies'. [snip] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From jkirk at spro.net Sat Mar 22 15:06:06 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sat Mar 22 15:06:04 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] P. Mishra on Tibetan uprising Message-ID: <000501c88c60$8c0201f0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/22/tibet.china1 At war with the utopia of modernity Tibetans' rage is directed not at communist rule, but the consumerist threat to their traditions and sacred lands Pankaj Mishra The Guardian, Saturday March 22 2008 Last week many western commentators scrambling to interpret the protests in Lhasa found that they did not need to work especially hard. Surely the Tibetans are the latest of many brave peoples to rebel against communist totalitarianism? The rhetorical templates of the cold war are still close at hand, shaping western discussions of Islam or Asia. Dusting off the hoary oppositions between the free and unfree worlds, the Wall Street Journal declared that religious freedom was the main issue. "On the streets of Lhasa, China has again had a vivid demonstration of the power of conscience to move people to action against a soulless, and brittle, state." This is stirring stuff. Never mind that the rioters in Lhasa were attacking Han Chinese immigrants rather than the Chinese state, or that the Chinese authorities have been relatively restrained so far, one cautious step behind middle-class public opinion - which I sensed in China last week to be overwhelmingly against the Tibetan ethnic minority. [etc] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Mon Mar 24 02:41:59 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Mon Mar 24 02:42:10 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? In-Reply-To: <000501c88c60$8c0201f0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <000501c88c60$8c0201f0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080324/tts-lifestyle-japan-religion-animal-offb-7d7070a.html W.F. Wong From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 24 07:24:20 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 24 07:24:22 2008 Subject: FW: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? Message-ID: <003b01c88db2$5ead7420$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080324/tts-lifestyle-japan-religion-animal-of fb-7d7070a.html W.F. Wong ========================== More fun than visiting that temple in BKK where the abbot keeps a gigantic brahma bull wandering about on the premises. Depsite its enormous size, the animal seems to be indifferent to visitors so isn't too scary, but I kept my distance. If Buddhist cats are like the temple dogs in Thailand, they probably pray for mere food. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM From alberlie at online.no Mon Mar 24 08:23:50 2008 From: alberlie at online.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22K=E5re_A=2E_Lie=22?=) Date: Mon Mar 24 08:24:04 2008 Subject: FW: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? In-Reply-To: <003b01c88db2$5ead7420$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no> At 07:24 24.03.2008 -0600, you wrote: >If Buddhist cats are like the temple dogs in Thailand, they probably pray >for mere food. I don't know if my cat is buddhist or not, but it meditates for hours every day. Yours, K?re A. Lie http://www.lienet.no From dharmafarer at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 08:31:18 2008 From: dharmafarer at gmail.com (Piya Tan) Date: Mon Mar 24 08:31:29 2008 Subject: FW: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no> References: <003b01c88db2$5ead7420$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no> Message-ID: There are Buddhist beautiful stories, mostly in the Jataka and Dhammapada Commentaries, of animals dying at peace and being reborn in Tavatimsa, a sort of heaven for animals. Shakra is the head of the devas there. Amongst the distinguished animal turned devas there are: Kanthaka, Siddhattha horse Palileyyaka the elephant that attended to the Buddha in the Palileyya forest The monkey who offered the Buddha some mangoes in the same place The frog that was transfixed by the Buddha's voice (Manduka Vimanavatthu) And I'm sure most of the lovely cats I had. The point is: treat your pets well, they do to heaven when they die, and become devas who will (hopefully) remember you. With metta, Piya On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:23 PM, "K?re A. Lie" wrote: > At 07:24 24.03.2008 -0600, you wrote: > > >If Buddhist cats are like the temple dogs in Thailand, they probably pray > >for mere food. > > I don't know if my cat is buddhist or not, but it meditates for hours > every > > day. > > Yours, > > K?re A. Lie > http://www.lienet.no > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- The Minding Centre Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr) Singapore 650644 Meditation courses & therapy: http://themindingcentre.googlepages.com Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com From curt at cola.iges.org Mon Mar 24 08:39:04 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Mon Mar 24 08:39:24 2008 Subject: FW: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no> Message-ID: <47E7BD08.4040203@cola.iges.org> obviously these creatures are praying for us. once upon a time the "animal realm" was lower and the "human realm" higher - but that has changed recently (over the last 500 years or so). we look at them and think "how cute", or "mmmmm, bacon" - but they look at us and think "poor bastards". Curt K?re A. Lie wrote: > At 07:24 24.03.2008 -0600, you wrote: > >> If Buddhist cats are like the temple dogs in Thailand, they probably >> pray >> for mere food. > > I don't know if my cat is buddhist or not, but it meditates for hours > every day. > > Yours, > > K?re A. Lie > http://www.lienet.no > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 24 09:44:23 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 24 09:44:17 2008 Subject: FW: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01c88db2$5ead7420$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no> Message-ID: <001c01c88dc5$eee94d80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> What a consoling idea. When I was a kid I and some of my friends used to wonder if our pets went to heaven when they died. The ministers offered differing answers to such questions. This I the first I've heard of a Buddhist heaven for animals. Interestingly, their heaven isn't the same for the one the humans might arrive at, so one is not reunited in heaven with one's pets or even one's family. But wait: isn't Tavatimsa the main heaven, where his mother Queen Maya went and where he visited her and preached the dhamma? If so then some animals and people would be together again. His descent from this heaven is a favorite illustration, as here from a Burman book: http://www.buddhamind.info/leftside/lifesty-2/burma.htm Looks more like an escalator than a golden ladder............. Here is a full dsecription of the heaven: http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/t/taavatimsa.htm Joanna =================== There are Buddhist beautiful stories, mostly in the Jataka and Dhammapada Commentaries, of animals dying at peace and being reborn in Tavatimsa, a sort of heaven for animals. Shakra is the head of the devas there. Amongst the distinguished animal turned devas there are: Kanthaka, Siddhattha horse Palileyyaka the elephant that attended to the Buddha in the Palileyya forest The monkey who offered the Buddha some mangoes in the same place The frog that was transfixed by the Buddha's voice (Manduka Vimanavatthu) And I'm sure most of the lovely cats I had. The point is: treat your pets well, they do to heaven when they die, and become devas who will (hopefully) remember you. With metta, Piya On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:23 PM, "K?re A. Lie" wrote: > At 07:24 24.03.2008 -0600, you wrote: > > >If Buddhist cats are like the temple dogs in Thailand, they probably > >pray for mere food. > > I don't know if my cat is buddhist or not, but it meditates for hours > every > > day. > > Yours, > > K?re A. Lie > http://www.lienet.no > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- The Minding Centre Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr) Singapore 650644 Meditation courses & therapy: http://themindingcentre.googlepages.com Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM From dharmafarer at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 09:51:27 2008 From: dharmafarer at gmail.com (Piya Tan) Date: Mon Mar 24 09:51:36 2008 Subject: FW: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? In-Reply-To: <001c01c88dc5$eee94d80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <003b01c88db2$5ead7420$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no> <001c01c88dc5$eee94d80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: Think evolving minds. Mind thinks, mind becomes. There are also the anthropological stories such as the wolf-boy of France, who could not be hominified (made human). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_children Anyway some are already animal in mind despite their human forms. Metta, Piya Tan On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:44 PM, jkirk wrote: > > What a consoling idea. When I was a kid I and some of my friends used to > wonder if our pets went to heaven when they died. The ministers offered > differing answers to such questions. This I the first > I've heard of a Buddhist heaven for animals. Interestingly, their heaven > isn't the same for the one the humans might arrive at, so one is not > reunited in heaven with one's pets or even one's family. > But wait: isn't Tavatimsa the main heaven, where his mother Queen Maya > went > and where he visited her and preached the dhamma? If so then some animals > and people would be together again. > > His descent from this heaven is a favorite illustration, as here from a > Burman book: > http://www.buddhamind.info/leftside/lifesty-2/burma.htm > Looks more like an escalator than a golden ladder............. > Here is a full dsecription of the heaven: > http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/t/taavatimsa.htm > Joanna > =================== > > > There are Buddhist beautiful stories, mostly in the Jataka and Dhammapada > Commentaries, of animals dying at peace and being reborn in Tavatimsa, a > sort of heaven for animals. > Shakra is the head of the devas there. > > Amongst the distinguished animal turned devas there are: > > Kanthaka, Siddhattha horse > Palileyyaka the elephant that attended to the Buddha in the Palileyya > forest > The monkey who offered the Buddha some mangoes in the same place The frog > that was transfixed by the Buddha's voice (Manduka Vimanavatthu) > > And I'm sure most of the lovely cats I had. > > The point is: treat your pets well, they do to heaven when they die, and > become devas who will (hopefully) remember you. > > With metta, > > Piya > > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:23 PM, "K?re A. Lie" > wrote: > > > At 07:24 24.03.2008 -0600, you wrote: > > > > >If Buddhist cats are like the temple dogs in Thailand, they probably > > >pray for mere food. > > > > I don't know if my cat is buddhist or not, but it meditates for hours > > every > > > > > > > day. > > > > Yours, > > > > K?re A. Lie > > http://www.lienet.no > > _______________________________________________ > > buddha-l mailing list > > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > > > > > -- > The Minding Centre > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr) Singapore 650644 Meditation > courses & therapy: http://themindingcentre.googlepages.com > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 > 4:43 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 > 4:43 PM > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- The Minding Centre Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr) Singapore 650644 Meditation courses & therapy: http://themindingcentre.googlepages.com Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com From seandavidyoung at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 10:11:53 2008 From: seandavidyoung at gmail.com (Sean Young) Date: Mon Mar 24 11:36:22 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] 2008 Dzogchen Lineage Spring Retreat Message-ID: <1395B266-F192-4606-A13D-9F248077069D@gmail.com> 2008 DZOGCHEN LINEAGE SPRING RETREAT A week of intensive Buddhist training with Dzogchen Khenpo Choga Rinpoche Spring Retreat ? Sunday, April 20, 2008 to Sunday, April 27, 2008 Dzogchen Buddha Institute and the Dzogchen Lineage are pleased to announce that Dzogchen Khenpo Choga Rinpoche will lead the 4th Annual Dzogchen Spring Retreat with Teachings on The Six Bardo Instructions starting Sunday, April 20th, 2008 and ending on Sunday, April 27th, 2008. This will be the first time in America that Khenpo Choga Rinpoche has taught extensively on The Six Bardo Instructions. The retreat will also include in-depth and direct teachings by Khenpo Choga Rinpoche on the sacred text The Buddha Path and he will also lead us in many practices including mantra recitation, reciting sacred text, visualizations, music making, light offerings, torma offerings, and food offerings. The teachings will be given at our beautiful retreat facility near Eugene, Oregon. Seating is limited, so please register early. Register now at: www.dzogchenlineage.org/schedule.html Please Contact: Hazlitt Krog, 415-846-3618, hazlitt@gmail.com About The Six Bardo Instructions The Tibetan Buddhist term "Bardo" means "between two" and commonly understood as the interval between death and rebirth. In truth, a bardo is an "intermediate" state marking key phases in our lives where we can heighten our potential for enlightenment. The Six bardos refer to the states of the life bardo (between birth and dying), the meditation bardo (between entering and exiting), the dream bardo (between sleeping and waking), the departing bardo (between dying and death), the natural bardo (between arising and disappearing), and the illusion bardo (between death and rebirth). Guru Padmasambhava Khyenno! May I liberate the ceaseless death and rebirth of this wandering ignorant mind. May I liberate this beginningless and endless wandering ignorant mind. May I rest this wandering ignorant mind in the natural great perfection. AH AH AH ?from The Buddha Path NOTE: The 2008 Spring Retreat will be the final opportunity for Dzogchen Internship Applicants to fulfill the requirement of having attended at least one seasonal retreat with Khenpo Choga Rinpoche. DZOGCHEN INTERNSHIP PROGRAM The Dzogchen Shri Singha Foundation is honored to announce the first Six-month Dharma Training Retreat at the Dzogchen Retreat Center USA. This intensive course will focus on establishing a solid foundation of knowledge in the view, meditation and conduct of Dharma. Under the daily guidance of H.E. Dzogchen Khenpo Choga Rinpoche, students will observe a full-time schedule of practice and study based on the traditions of the great Buddhist universities of ancient India and Tibet. This program will help students deepen their understanding and enhance their ability to clearly teach others. Space is filling up quickly, so apply soon. Internship Overview and Online Application: http://www.dzogchenlineage.org/internship/ The Internship Committee is also seeking sponsors to financially support interns and volunteer staff to assist at the Dzogchen Retreat Center prior to and during the Internship. Please Contact: Kunzang, Internship Director; 702-343-5833, internship@dzogchenlineage.org Sean Young Director of Public Relations, Dzogchen Shri Singha Foundation 1111 W. Martin St. Boise, ID 83706 Land: 208-433-9670 Cell: 208-412-2582 seandavidyoung@gmail.com "Shine on the pioneers Those seekers of mental health Craving simplicity They traveled inward Past themselves... May all their little lights shine." ?Joni Mitchell From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Mon Mar 24 20:07:37 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Weng-Fai Wong) Date: Mon Mar 24 20:07:49 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] So what do Buddhist cats pray for? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01c88db2$5ead7420$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX><5.2.1.1.0.20080324152243.02fc9c90@pop.online.no><001c01c88dc5$eee94d80$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <000901c88e1c$fff58c90$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Here's what they do in Burma to earn their living... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE2mcAtRolE W.F. Wong From cfynn at gmx.net Thu Mar 27 04:46:31 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue Mar 25 04:47:10 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet uprisings: Chinese Intellectuals Ask China to Rethink Tibet Policy In-Reply-To: <47E40A2D.7020506@cola.iges.org> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org><47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org><00ec01c88b7d$92ba12a0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47E4069E.2020309@cola.iges.org> <002201c88b87$9c94c360$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47E40A2D.7020506@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47EB7B07.7040409@gmx.net> Leading Chinese Intellectuals Ask China to Rethink Tibet Policy Protests or related events in Tibet during March 2008 http://www.tibetinfonet.net/newsticker/entries Map of sites of Tibetan Protests in Tibet / China: Tibet's Future... Does It Have One? Tracking the Steel Dragon From tycann2000 at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 25 08:46:18 2008 From: tycann2000 at yahoo.co.uk (Tyler Cann) Date: Tue Mar 25 09:26:13 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] RE: UNESCO Vesak Message-ID: <642584.71412.qm@web27110.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi Gary, The Unesco Vesak celebrations should be quite good this year. I may be able to go if my uni sponsors me, but I'm not holding my breath. I know that it's being organized by VBU, who tends to have first class people running things. The Chairman of the organizing committee is my friend and personal hero, Ven. Le Manh That (Thich Tri Sieu) (if you don't know who he is, PLEASE check out http://www.hdvnbtdt.org/article.php3?id_article=111.) As you probably know, the conference has been held for the last several years in Bangkok and organized by Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya, my uni. I can tell you that I personally put more faith into Le Manh That and his people than my disorganized, frenzied institution, so I'm sure this year's conference will be great. Last year's highlights included keynote speeches by Thich Nhat Hanh and Ajahn Brahm. My personal favorite, however, was the address by the interim Thai Prime Minister regarding good governance-- delicious hypocrisy coming from a man who gained power through a military coup! Where are you from? I take it that most of the posters here are Americans. For some reason, we never get many Americans at the UNESCO Vesak conference, and I can't imagine why--a grand olde time is had by all (except for me, of course, as I am usually stuck in some back room writing press releases and frantically editing speeches). We get the best scholars in Asia-- all the Thais, Vietnamese, Burmese, Taiwanese, Laotians, Cambodians, Japanese (though the Chinese refuse to attend b/c we invite the Taiwanese). We get a lot of great Brits, too (Gombrich and Gethin usually show up) but very few people from the States. It's curious that we don't get a lot of Vajrayanists nor scholars from America, a Vajrayana-obsessed country. I'm not implying anything here, just wondering. Tyler __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. More Ways to Keep in Touch. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 25 11:51:54 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 25 11:52:03 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] UN Day Of Wesak conference in HaNoi Message-ID: <001901c88ea0$e9e6d5b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> http://vesakday2008.com/ http://vesakday2008.com/tintuc/index.php?menu=dangky It will be held at National Convention Center & Hanoi Cultural Center May 13-16/08. Here's another link: http://www.buddhanet.net/event02.htm http://vesakday2008.com/tintuc/index.php?menu=detail&mid=7&nid=162 this link takes the dates to May 18th. Some tours are listed on one of these sites--but the one I am trying to get more info about is Thay taking a group to Hue after the conference to visit his root monastery, Tu Hieu. Some folkson thislist might like to know about it. If May weren't one of the best months of the year where I live, garden-wise (I do the garden every year, it's a comforting healthy project) I'd seriously think of going, despite the big bux. Thich Naht Hanh will be there and after the conference ends he's taking a group to Hue to visit his root monastery, Tu Hieu. I'd sure love to be with that group. I visited this monastery in January, it's situated in a beautiful park setting; talked with one of the monks whose English was very good, who said he had joined when he was just a kid and had been there 17 years. Not only that, Hue is a lovely quiet town, not rampagingly trafficked up like HaNoi. Here is an interesting comment from someone at Mahachulalongkorn University who has gone to previous ones which were held in Thailand. He is surprised so few Americans attend. Joanna ------------------ The Unesco Vesak celebrations should be quite good this year. I may be able to go if my uni sponsors me, but I'm not holding my breath. I know that it's being organized by VBU, who tends to have first class people running things. The Chairman of the organizing committee is my friend and personal hero, Ven. Le Manh That (Thich Tri Sieu) (if you don't know who he is, PLEASE check out http://www.hdvnbtdt.org/article.php3?id_article=111 ). As you probably know, the conference has been held for the last several years in Bangkok and organized by Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya, my uni. I can tell you that I personally put more faith into Le Manh That and his people than my disorganized, frenzied institution, so I'm sure this year's conference will be great. Last year's highlights included keynote speeches by Thich Nhat Hanh and Ajahn Brahm. My personal favorite, however, was the address by the interim Thai Prime Minister regarding good governance-- delicious hypocrisy coming from a man who gained power through a military coup! For some reason, we never get many Americans at the UNESCO Vesak conference, and I can't imagine why--a grand olde time is had by all (except for me, of course, as I am usually stuck in some back room writing press releases and frantically editing speeches). We get the best scholars in Asia-- all the Thais, Vietnamese, Burmese, Taiwanese, Laotians, Cambodians, Japanese (though the Chinese refuse to attend b/c we invite the Taiwanese). We get a lot of great Brits, too (Gombrich and Gethin usually show up) but very few people from the States. It's curious that we don't get a lot of Vajrayanists nor scholars from America, a Vajrayana-obsessed country. I'm not implying anything here, just wondering. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 25 12:17:15 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 25 12:17:29 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] CFP: Annual S. Asia Conf, Madison, Deadline April 1, 2008 Message-ID: <002c01c88ea4$74736740$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> This particular CFP topic seems a must for those on the list who have been concerned with the Maitreya Project slated now for Kushinagar in India. I just found this today...so time is short for abstracts to the panel in question: Mar 30. Joanna K. =========================================================== H-ASIA March 25, 2008 CFP: Annual S. Asia Conf, Madison, Deadline April 1, 2008 Call for abstracts for the upcoming Annual Conference on South Asia in the University of Wisconsin, Madison, Oct 16-19, 2008. Dear colleagues, This is a call for abstracts for a panel entitled "Fragile Spaces, Contested Places: Politics of land-use in South Asia" for the upcoming Annual Conference on South Asia in Madison. The deadline for the submission of the abstracts in April 1st, 2008. We would appreciate it if you could send us your abstract by the 30th of March. Here's a brief description of the panel. This panel explores the shifting sensibilities around land and land-use within the context of neoliberal economic policies and military interventions in South-Asia. While conventional understandings of land emphasized financial stability, food security, social status, and class positions, local, national, and global conceptualizations vis-?-vis land are being revised as new livelihood practices emerge within economic structures forged through neoliberalism and militarization. For local communities and state-institutions, such revisions entail a redefinition of cultural meanings as well as political economy of land use. Within this context, our panel explores the following set of questions: how do local symbolics and politics of land-use correspond to and conflict with state agendas that privilege militarist and economically-driven claims of appropriate and just land use; and, how do the polyvalent discourses of economic modernity and state security play out in conjunction with people?s desires, aspirations, and subjectivities that are deeply emmeshed in particular configurations and practices of land-use? Individual papers in this panel will provide theoretical and ethnographic perspectives to delineate the vexed and emergent structures of feeling around appropriation, use, and the centrality of land in people's consciousness and praxis in contemporary South Asia. The papers initiate an innovative dialogue to bring together several bodies of literature by exploring the intricate connections between state and local uses of space and place and seemingly disparate ideologies and practices of defense and development ?ideologies and practices that are crucially dependent on the use and appropriation of land as well as the reconfiguration of community spaces. You can send your abstracts to Mona Bhan at monabhan@depauw.edu or to Debarati Sen at dsen@eden.rutgers.edu. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM From curt at cola.iges.org Tue Mar 25 13:20:02 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Tue Mar 25 13:20:23 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] NBC Olympics coverage Message-ID: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> NBC has a special email address just for "feedback" concerning their Olympics coverage: nbcolympicsfeedback@nbcuni.com Here is what I sent them - with the subject heading "Tibet": Tibet has been brutally occupied by China since 1950. I don't see how NBC can justify making millions of dollars covering the 2008 Summer Olympics while China's oppression of the Tibetan people not only continues - but increases in it's savagery. I plan to not only completely boycott all NBC programming - but also any and all Olympic sponsors, including especially sponsors of NBC's Olympics coverage. Sincerely, Curtis Steinmetz Rockville MD 20853 From curt at cola.iges.org Tue Mar 25 14:04:49 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Tue Mar 25 14:05:21 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] NBC Olympics coverage In-Reply-To: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> For those of a certain age, or for any youngsters out there who are interested in ancient history, here is a reminder of just how powerful, at least in terms of imagery and symbolism, the Olympics can be as a venue for protest: http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&q=olympics+black+power+68&btnG=Search+Images Curt Steinmetz Curt Steinmetz wrote: > NBC has a special email address just for "feedback" concerning their > Olympics coverage: > nbcolympicsfeedback@nbcuni.com > > Here is what I sent them - with the subject heading "Tibet": > Tibet has been brutally occupied by China since 1950. I don't see how > NBC can justify making millions of dollars covering the 2008 Summer > Olympics while China's oppression of the Tibetan people not only > continues - but increases in it's savagery. I plan to not only > completely boycott all NBC programming - but also any and all Olympic > sponsors, including especially sponsors of NBC's Olympics coverage. > Sincerely, > Curtis Steinmetz > Rockville MD 20853 > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From kelsang_shraddha at hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 14:28:09 2008 From: kelsang_shraddha at hotmail.com (Carol McQuire) Date: Tue Mar 25 14:43:27 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] NBC Olympics coverage In-Reply-To: <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: Also a reminder that Human Rights injustices also took place just before these Olypmics - the massacres of the students during the protests against the Olympics in Tlatelolco, Mexico City, October 2nd 1968 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp0.blogger.com/_paQ9I13fSjk/RwRSi5XXlaI/AAAAAAAAAJI/kInTomALBe0/s320/1968mexico.jpg&imgrefurl=http://amoryresistencia.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html&h=203&w=320&sz=23&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=gG73N7CIyacPdM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmexican%2Bolympics%2Brepression%2B1968%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_Massacre Carol McQuire Brighton, UK > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:04:49 -0400> From: curt@cola.iges.org> To: buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com> Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] NBC Olympics coverage> > For those of a certain age, or for any youngsters out there who are > interested in ancient history, here is a reminder of just how powerful, > at least in terms of imagery and symbolism, the Olympics can be as a > venue for protest:> http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&q=olympics+black+power+68&btnG=Search+Images> > Curt Steinmetz> > Curt Steinmetz wrote:> > NBC has a special email address just for "feedback" concerning their > > Olympics coverage:> > nbcolympicsfeedback@nbcuni.com> >> > Here is what I sent them - with the subject heading "Tibet":> > Tibet has been brutally occupied by China since 1950. I don't see how > > NBC can justify making millions of dollars covering the 2008 Summer > > Olympics while China's oppression of the Tibetan people not only > > continues - but increases in it's savagery. I plan to not only > > completely boycott all NBC programming - but also any and all Olympic > > sponsors, including especially sponsors of NBC's Olympics coverage.> > Sincerely,> > Curtis Steinmetz> > Rockville MD 20853> > _______________________________________________> > buddha-l mailing list> > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com> > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l> > _______________________________________________> buddha-l mailing list> buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com> http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l _________________________________________________________________ Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap http://www.bigsnapsearch.com From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 25 16:44:11 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 25 16:44:17 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] China's Tibet scandal Message-ID: <000801c88ec9$bed267d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/25/tibet.china ...Meng Jianzhu, the minister of public security, has ordered Tibet's security forces to remain on the alert for further unrest and said "patriotic education" campaigns would be strengthened in monasteries, according to the Tibet Daily newspaper. "The Dalai clique refuses to give up their evil designs, and even in their death throes are planning new acts of sabotage," Meng was quoted as saying, during a visit to Lhasa. The more they keep accusing some ridiculous chimera of their paranoid imaginations, that they call "the Dalai clique", and the more they speak about "patriotic education:"--we all know what that means--the more face they lose internationally. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 25 16:54:50 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 25 16:54:54 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] NBC Olympics coverage In-Reply-To: <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <001501c88ecb$3b8bebb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Hm--I'm betting that some of the athletes will sneak in black flags like Reporters Without Borders snuck in to the Greek lighting of the torch ceremony--the flags showed the linked circles as handcuffs--to the Olympics, and unfurl them at the right moment. Heh heh Joanna ======================== For those of a certain age, or for any youngsters out there who are interested in ancient history, here is a reminder of just how powerful, at least in terms of imagery and symbolism, the Olympics can be as a venue for protest: http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&q=olympics+black+power+6 8&btnG=Search+Images Curt Steinmetz Curt Steinmetz wrote: > NBC has a special email address just for "feedback" concerning their > Olympics coverage: > nbcolympicsfeedback@nbcuni.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Tue Mar 25 20:53:13 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Weng-Fai Wong) Date: Tue Mar 25 20:53:25 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A sobering read In-Reply-To: <001501c88ecb$3b8bebb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> <001501c88ecb$3b8bebb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <002201c88eec$88fe1c80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/opinion/22french.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=patric k+french&st=nyt&oref=slogin Op-Ed Contributor He May Be a God, but He's No Politician By PATRICK FRENCH Published: March 22, 2008 London NEARLY a decade ago, while staying with a nomad family in the remote grasslands of northeastern Tibet, I asked Namdrub, a man who fought in the anti-Communist resistance in the 1950s, what he thought about the exiled Tibetans who campaigned for his freedom. "It may make them feel good, but for us, it makes life worse," he replied. "It makes the Chinese create more controls over us. Tibet is too important to the Communists for them even to discuss independence." Protests have spread across the Tibetan plateau over the last two weeks, and at least 100 people have died. Anyone who finds it odd that Speaker Nancy Pelosi has rushed to Dharamsala, India, to stand by the Dalai Lama's side fails to realize that American politics provided an important spark for the demonstrations. Last October, when the Congressional Gold Medal was awarded to the Dalai Lama, monks in Tibet watched over the Internet and celebrated by setting off fireworks and throwing barley flour. They were quickly arrested. It was for the release of these monks that demonstrators initially turned out this month. Their brave stand quickly metamorphosed into a protest by Lhasa residents who were angry that many economic advantages of the last 10 or 15 years had gone to Han Chinese and Hui Muslims. A young refugee whose family is still in Tibet told me this week of the medal, "People believed that the American government was genuinely considering the Tibet issue as a priority." In fact, the award was a symbolic gesture, arranged mostly to make American lawmakers feel good. A similar misunderstanding occurred in 1987 when the Dalai Lama was denounced by the Chinese state media for putting forward a peace proposal on Capitol Hill. To Tibetans brought up in the Communist system - where a politician's physical proximity to the leadership on the evening news indicates to the public that he is in favor - it appeared that the world's most powerful government was offering substantive political backing to the Dalai Lama. Protests began in Lhasa, and martial law was declared. The brutal suppression that followed was orchestrated by the party secretary in Tibet, Hu Jintao, who is now the Chinese president. His response to the current unrest is likely to be equally uncompromising. The Dalai Lama is a great and charismatic spiritual figure, but a poor and poorly advised political strategist. When he escaped into exile in India in 1959, he declared himself an admirer of Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolent resistance. But Gandhi took huge gambles, starting the Salt March and starving himself nearly to death - a very different approach from the Dalai Lama's "middle way," which concentrates on nonviolence rather than resistance. The Dalai Lama has never really tried to use direct action to leverage his authority. At the end of the 1980s, he joined forces with Hollywood and generated huge popular support for the Tibetan cause in America and Western Europe. This approach made some sense at the time. The Soviet Union was falling apart, and many people thought China might do the same. In practice, however, the campaign outraged the nationalist and xenophobic Chinese leadership. It has been clear since the mid-1990s that the popular internationalization of the Tibet issue has had no positive effect on the Beijing government. The leadership is not amenable to "moral pressure," over the Olympics or anything else, particularly by the nations that invaded Iraq. The Dalai Lama should have closed down the Hollywood strategy a decade ago and focused on back-channel diplomacy with Beijing. He should have publicly renounced the claim to a so-called Greater Tibet, which demands territory that was never under the control of the Lhasa government. Sending his envoys to talk about talks with the Chinese while simultaneously encouraging the global pro-Tibet lobby has achieved nothing. When Beijing attacks the "Dalai clique," it is referring to the various groups that make Chinese leaders lose face each time they visit a Western country. The International Campaign for Tibet, based in Washington, is now a more powerful and effective force on global opinion than the Dalai Lama's outfit in northern India. The European and American pro-Tibet organizations are the tail that wags the dog of the Tibetan government-in-exile. These groups hate criticism almost as much as the Chinese government does. Some use questionable information. For example, the Free Tibet Campaign in London (of which I am a former director) and other groups have long claimed that 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese since they invaded in 1950. However, after scouring the archives in Dharamsala while researching my book on Tibet, I found that there was no evidence to support that figure. The question that Nancy Pelosi and celebrity advocates like Richard Gere ought to answer is this: Have the actions of the Western pro-Tibet lobby over the last 20 years brought a single benefit to the Tibetans who live inside Tibet, and if not, why continue with a failed strategy? I first visited Tibet in 1986. The economic plight of ordinary people is slightly better now, but they have as little political freedom as they did two decades ago. Tibet lacks genuine autonomy, and ethnic Tibetans are excluded from positions of real power within the bureaucracy or the army. Tibet was effectively a sovereign nation at the time of the Communist invasion and was in full control of its own affairs. But the battle for Tibetan independence was lost 49 years ago when the Dalai Lama escaped into exile. His goal, and that of those who want to help the Tibetan people, should be to negotiate realistically with the Chinese state. The present protests, supported from overseas, will bring only more suffering. China is not a democracy, and it will not budge. Patrick French is the author of "Tibet, Tibet: A Personal History of a Lost Land." From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 25 21:33:01 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 25 21:33:06 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A sobering read In-Reply-To: <002201c88eec$88fe1c80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org><001501c88ecb$3b8bebb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <002201c88eec$88fe1c80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <002e01c88ef2$18796d60$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Why blame only the US? The International Campaign for Tibet is just that: international. There are similar or allied campaigns in most of the main EU countries. I can't say whether or not HHDL is an astute politician. The international campaigns on behalf of Aung San Suu Kyi haven't been any more successful. In Gandhi's time in India, the Raj avoided firing on demonstrators, a tactic that both China and the Burman junta have used. The Raj used Indian troops to launch lathi charges. Moreover, China has been Burma's main high-tech weapons supplier. Much more difficult to mount effective protest campaigns under such circumstances. Nor do fasts until death do any good these days. If HHDL did that, the casualties among Tibetans would probably be much higher than they are now. Joanna ================ http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/opinion/22french.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=patric k+french&st=nyt&oref=slogin Op-Ed Contributor He May Be a God, but He's No Politician By PATRICK FRENCH Published: March 22, 2008 London NEARLY a decade ago, while staying with a nomad family in the remote grasslands of northeastern Tibet, I asked Namdrub, a man who fought in the anti-Communist resistance in the 1950s, what he thought about the exiled Tibetans who campaigned for his freedom. "It may make them feel good, but for us, it makes life worse," he replied. "It makes the Chinese create more controls over us. Tibet is too important to the Communists for them even to discuss independence." Protests have spread across the Tibetan plateau over the last two weeks, and at least 100 people have died. Anyone who finds it odd that Speaker Nancy Pelosi has rushed to Dharamsala, India, to stand by the Dalai Lama's side fails to realize that American politics provided an important spark for the demonstrations. Last October, when the Congressional Gold Medal was awarded to the Dalai Lama, monks in Tibet watched over the Internet and celebrated by setting off fireworks and throwing barley flour. They were quickly arrested. It was for the release of these monks that demonstrators initially turned out this month. Their brave stand quickly metamorphosed into a protest by Lhasa residents who were angry that many economic advantages of the last 10 or 15 years had gone to Han Chinese and Hui Muslims. A young refugee whose family is still in Tibet told me this week of the medal, "People believed that the American government was genuinely considering the Tibet issue as a priority." In fact, the award was a symbolic gesture, arranged mostly to make American lawmakers feel good. A similar misunderstanding occurred in 1987 when the Dalai Lama was denounced by the Chinese state media for putting forward a peace proposal on Capitol Hill. To Tibetans brought up in the Communist system - where a politician's physical proximity to the leadership on the evening news indicates to the public that he is in favor - it appeared that the world's most powerful government was offering substantive political backing to the Dalai Lama. Protests began in Lhasa, and martial law was declared. The brutal suppression that followed was orchestrated by the party secretary in Tibet, Hu Jintao, who is now the Chinese president. His response to the current unrest is likely to be equally uncompromising. The Dalai Lama is a great and charismatic spiritual figure, but a poor and poorly advised political strategist. When he escaped into exile in India in 1959, he declared himself an admirer of Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolent resistance. But Gandhi took huge gambles, starting the Salt March and starving himself nearly to death - a very different approach from the Dalai Lama's "middle way," which concentrates on nonviolence rather than resistance. The Dalai Lama has never really tried to use direct action to leverage his authority. At the end of the 1980s, he joined forces with Hollywood and generated huge popular support for the Tibetan cause in America and Western Europe. This approach made some sense at the time. The Soviet Union was falling apart, and many people thought China might do the same. In practice, however, the campaign outraged the nationalist and xenophobic Chinese leadership. It has been clear since the mid-1990s that the popular internationalization of the Tibet issue has had no positive effect on the Beijing government. The leadership is not amenable to "moral pressure," over the Olympics or anything else, particularly by the nations that invaded Iraq. The Dalai Lama should have closed down the Hollywood strategy a decade ago and focused on back-channel diplomacy with Beijing. He should have publicly renounced the claim to a so-called Greater Tibet, which demands territory that was never under the control of the Lhasa government. Sending his envoys to talk about talks with the Chinese while simultaneously encouraging the global pro-Tibet lobby has achieved nothing. When Beijing attacks the "Dalai clique," it is referring to the various groups that make Chinese leaders lose face each time they visit a Western country. The International Campaign for Tibet, based in Washington, is now a more powerful and effective force on global opinion than the Dalai Lama's outfit in northern India. The European and American pro-Tibet organizations are the tail that wags the dog of the Tibetan government-in-exile. These groups hate criticism almost as much as the Chinese government does. Some use questionable information. For example, the Free Tibet Campaign in London (of which I am a former director) and other groups have long claimed that 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese since they invaded in 1950. However, after scouring the archives in Dharamsala while researching my book on Tibet, I found that there was no evidence to support that figure. The question that Nancy Pelosi and celebrity advocates like Richard Gere ought to answer is this: Have the actions of the Western pro-Tibet lobby over the last 20 years brought a single benefit to the Tibetans who live inside Tibet, and if not, why continue with a failed strategy? I first visited Tibet in 1986. The economic plight of ordinary people is slightly better now, but they have as little political freedom as they did two decades ago. Tibet lacks genuine autonomy, and ethnic Tibetans are excluded from positions of real power within the bureaucracy or the army. Tibet was effectively a sovereign nation at the time of the Communist invasion and was in full control of its own affairs. But the battle for Tibetan independence was lost 49 years ago when the Dalai Lama escaped into exile. His goal, and that of those who want to help the Tibetan people, should be to negotiate realistically with the Chinese state. The present protests, supported from overseas, will bring only more suffering. China is not a democracy, and it will not budge. Patrick French is the author of "Tibet, Tibet: A Personal History of a Lost Land." _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM From jkirk at spro.net Tue Mar 25 22:50:25 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Tue Mar 25 22:50:28 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] UN Day Of Wesak conference in HaNoi--correction In-Reply-To: <001901c88ea0$e9e6d5b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <001901c88ea0$e9e6d5b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <006901c88efc$e853fbe0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Correction: I just found the info about the post conference trip to Hue. It will be led by Sr. Chan Khong (not by Thay), as follows: Following the conference on May 17th, for a modest additional cost, Sister Chan Khong will lead an optional one-day trip to visit the Vietnam?s Avalokiteshvara caves set in a marvelous landscape a half-day from Hanoi, returning to Hanoi late the same night. After rest day on May 18th, Sister Chan Khong will lead another optional trip by air to Hue on May 19th, where you will have the chance to visit Tu Hieu Temple, the root temple where Thay practiced as a novice. On May 20th and 21st, we will travel by bus to visit preschool programs sponsored by the fourfold Plum Village Sangha in the Thua Thien and Quang Tri regions. If you would like to participate in these special events, or would like more information, please contact our registrar Sr. Tue Nghiem at tnhvntrip@earthlink.net. Presentation proposals should be submitted by email to Sr. Pine at vesak2008@yahoo.com; please include ?Vesak 2008? in the subject line. Best, Joanna =============================================================== http://vesakday2008.com/ http://vesakday2008.com/tintuc/index.php?menu=dangky It will be held at National Convention Center & Hanoi Cultural Center May 13-16/08. Here's another link: http://www.buddhanet.net/event02.htm http://vesakday2008.com/tintuc/index.php?menu=detail&mid=7&nid=162 this link takes the dates to May 18th. Some tours are listed on one of these sites--but the one I am trying to get more info about is Thay taking a group to Hue after the conference to visit his root monastery, Tu Hieu. Some folkson thislist might like to know about it. If May weren't one of the best months of the year where I live, garden-wise (I do the garden every year, it's a comforting healthy project) I'd seriously think of going, despite the big bux. Thich Naht Hanh will be there and after the conference ends he's taking a group to Hue to visit his root monastery, Tu Hieu. I'd sure love to be with that group. I visited this monastery in January, it's situated in a beautiful park setting; talked with one of the monks whose English was very good, who said he had joined when he was just a kid and had been there 17 years. Not only that, Hue is a lovely quiet town, not rampagingly trafficked up like HaNoi. Here is an interesting comment from someone at Mahachulalongkorn University who has gone to previous ones which were held in Thailand. He is surprised so few Americans attend. Joanna ------------------ The Unesco Vesak celebrations should be quite good this year. I may be able to go if my uni sponsors me, but I'm not holding my breath. I know that it's being organized by VBU, who tends to have first class people running things. The Chairman of the organizing committee is my friend and personal hero, Ven. Le Manh That (Thich Tri Sieu) (if you don't know who he is, PLEASE check out http://www.hdvnbtdt.org/article.php3?id_article=111 ). As you probably know, the conference has been held for the last several years in Bangkok and organized by Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya, my uni. I can tell you that I personally put more faith into Le Manh That and his people than my disorganized, frenzied institution, so I'm sure this year's conference will be great. Last year's highlights included keynote speeches by Thich Nhat Hanh and Ajahn Brahm. My personal favorite, however, was the address by the interim Thai Prime Minister regarding good governance-- delicious hypocrisy coming from a man who gained power through a military coup! For some reason, we never get many Americans at the UNESCO Vesak conference, and I can't imagine why--a grand olde time is had by all (except for me, of course, as I am usually stuck in some back room writing press releases and frantically editing speeches). We get the best scholars in Asia-- all the Thais, Vietnamese, Burmese, Taiwanese, Laotians, Cambodians, Japanese (though the Chinese refuse to attend b/c we invite the Taiwanese). We get a lot of great Brits, too (Gombrich and Gethin usually show up) but very few people from the States. It's curious that we don't get a lot of Vajrayanists nor scholars from America, a Vajrayana-obsessed country. I'm not implying anything here, just wondering. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 26 06:28:40 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 26 06:29:08 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A sobering read In-Reply-To: <002201c88eec$88fe1c80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> <001501c88ecb$3b8bebb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <002201c88eec$88fe1c80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: <47EA4178.6010707@cola.iges.org> It would require at least a small book to refute all the nonsense that Patrick French manages to fit into a few paragraphs. Even the title itself is nothing but a bit of blatantly Orientalist mockery directed against the religion of the Tibetan people. Imagine someone writing such an article at the height of the Nazi holocaust? "The Jews Might Be the Chosen People, but They Are Sure Lousy at Politics." And then going on to say how the Allies are just making things worse for the Jews with all their bombing and invasions - instead they should be working with Herr Hitler behind the scenes in Munich. Curt Steinmetz Weng-Fai Wong wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/opinion/22french.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=patric > k+french&st=nyt&oref=slogin > > Op-Ed Contributor > He May Be a God, but He's No Politician > > > By PATRICK FRENCH > Published: March 22, 2008 > London > > NEARLY a decade ago, while staying with a nomad family in the remote > grasslands of northeastern Tibet, I asked Namdrub, a man who fought in the > anti-Communist resistance in the 1950s, what he thought about the exiled > Tibetans who campaigned for his freedom. "It may make them feel good, but > for us, it makes life worse," he replied. "It makes the Chinese create more > controls over us. Tibet is too important to the Communists for them even to > discuss independence." > > Protests have spread across the Tibetan plateau over the last two weeks, and > at least 100 people have died. Anyone who finds it odd that Speaker Nancy > Pelosi has rushed to Dharamsala, India, to stand by the Dalai Lama's side > fails to realize that American politics provided an important spark for the > demonstrations. Last October, when the Congressional Gold Medal was awarded > to the Dalai Lama, monks in Tibet watched over the Internet and celebrated > by setting off fireworks and throwing barley flour. They were quickly > arrested. > > It was for the release of these monks that demonstrators initially turned > out this month. Their brave stand quickly metamorphosed into a protest by > Lhasa residents who were angry that many economic advantages of the last 10 > or 15 years had gone to Han Chinese and Hui Muslims. A young refugee whose > family is still in Tibet told me this week of the medal, "People believed > that the American government was genuinely considering the Tibet issue as a > priority." In fact, the award was a symbolic gesture, arranged mostly to > make American lawmakers feel good. > > A similar misunderstanding occurred in 1987 when the Dalai Lama was > denounced by the Chinese state media for putting forward a peace proposal on > Capitol Hill. To Tibetans brought up in the Communist system - where a > politician's physical proximity to the leadership on the evening news > indicates to the public that he is in favor - it appeared that the world's > most powerful government was offering substantive political backing to the > Dalai Lama. Protests began in Lhasa, and martial law was declared. The > brutal suppression that followed was orchestrated by the party secretary in > Tibet, Hu Jintao, who is now the Chinese president. His response to the > current unrest is likely to be equally uncompromising. > > The Dalai Lama is a great and charismatic spiritual figure, but a poor and > poorly advised political strategist. When he escaped into exile in India in > 1959, he declared himself an admirer of Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolent > resistance. But Gandhi took huge gambles, starting the Salt March and > starving himself nearly to death - a very different approach from the Dalai > Lama's "middle way," which concentrates on nonviolence rather than > resistance. The Dalai Lama has never really tried to use direct action to > leverage his authority. > > At the end of the 1980s, he joined forces with Hollywood and generated huge > popular support for the Tibetan cause in America and Western Europe. This > approach made some sense at the time. The Soviet Union was falling apart, > and many people thought China might do the same. In practice, however, the > campaign outraged the nationalist and xenophobic Chinese leadership. > > It has been clear since the mid-1990s that the popular internationalization > of the Tibet issue has had no positive effect on the Beijing government. The > leadership is not amenable to "moral pressure," over the Olympics or > anything else, particularly by the nations that invaded Iraq. > > The Dalai Lama should have closed down the Hollywood strategy a decade ago > and focused on back-channel diplomacy with Beijing. He should have publicly > renounced the claim to a so-called Greater Tibet, which demands territory > that was never under the control of the Lhasa government. Sending his envoys > to talk about talks with the Chinese while simultaneously encouraging the > global pro-Tibet lobby has achieved nothing. > > When Beijing attacks the "Dalai clique," it is referring to the various > groups that make Chinese leaders lose face each time they visit a Western > country. The International Campaign for Tibet, based in Washington, is now a > more powerful and effective force on global opinion than the Dalai Lama's > outfit in northern India. The European and American pro-Tibet organizations > are the tail that wags the dog of the Tibetan government-in-exile. > > These groups hate criticism almost as much as the Chinese government does. > Some use questionable information. For example, the Free Tibet Campaign in > London (of which I am a former director) and other groups have long claimed > that 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese since they invaded > in 1950. However, after scouring the archives in Dharamsala while > researching my book on Tibet, I found that there was no evidence to support > that figure. The question that Nancy Pelosi and celebrity advocates like > Richard Gere ought to answer is this: Have the actions of the Western > pro-Tibet lobby over the last 20 years brought a single benefit to the > Tibetans who live inside Tibet, and if not, why continue with a failed > strategy? > > I first visited Tibet in 1986. The economic plight of ordinary people is > slightly better now, but they have as little political freedom as they did > two decades ago. Tibet lacks genuine autonomy, and ethnic Tibetans are > excluded from positions of real power within the bureaucracy or the army. > Tibet was effectively a sovereign nation at the time of the Communist > invasion and was in full control of its own affairs. But the battle for > Tibetan independence was lost 49 years ago when the Dalai Lama escaped into > exile. His goal, and that of those who want to help the Tibetan people, > should be to negotiate realistically with the Chinese state. The present > protests, supported from overseas, will bring only more suffering. China is > not a democracy, and it will not budge. > > Patrick French is the author of "Tibet, Tibet: A Personal History of a Lost > Land." > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 26 07:46:07 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 26 07:46:32 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet Protest in DC March 31st Message-ID: <47EA539F.1040806@cola.iges.org> I just received this in my inbox: "I'm writing now to everyone I've met or who's contacted me in the past few days about solidarity demonstrations in DC for Tibet. The next major day will be Monday, March 31 at the Whitehouse, beginning at 12:30 in the afternoon. I'm still awaiting details from the organizers but I want to get the date and time out to you all ASAP. A number of people will be bussing in from along the east coast - Boston, NYC, etc. - to join us." It is from Rich Felker, Mid-Atlantic Regional Coordinator for Students for a Free Tibet. Sounds like it could be big! Curt Steinmetz From curt at cola.iges.org Wed Mar 26 08:49:23 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Wed Mar 26 08:49:44 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A sobering read In-Reply-To: <47EA4178.6010707@cola.iges.org> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> <001501c88ecb$3b8bebb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <002201c88eec$88fe1c80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg> <47EA4178.6010707@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <47EA6273.10902@cola.iges.org> For anyone with a strong stomach - here is more from the execrable Patrick French: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main38.asp?filename=Ne290308dalai_lama_quit.asp French used to be the Director of the Free Tibet Campaign - and apparently got his nose bent out of joint over some political infighting that he came out on the losing side of. "These groups [pro-Tibet organizations] hate criticism almost as much as the Chinese government does." Duh. Everyone hates criticism. Fortunately, the Free Tibet Campaign seems to be doing just fine without their former Director: http://www.freetibet.org/ The really disgusting thing is that French is now using the fact that was formerly associated with "these groups" to make a name for himself by attacking the freedom struggle of the people he once saw himself as a champion of. He apparently aspires to be the Tibetan equivalent of Lord Haw Haw. Curt Steinmetz From paul.fullerengelmajer at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 03:22:22 2008 From: paul.fullerengelmajer at gmail.com (Paul Fuller) Date: Wed Mar 26 12:02:15 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? Message-ID: <1fd1fcf10803260222x22f61c9er705d48d3e44f6eee@mail.gmail.com> I enjoy teaching about Pure Lands to students, I think you can cover a lot of ground about Buddhism in discussing them. But students ask some great, and simple questions. Like: 'where are the Pure Lands'? And where, for that matter is earth in relation to them? I'm aware of all sorts of ways to answer this, but I'm looking for a specific answer to do with their 'actual' location. Any ideas? Cheers, Paul -- Dr. Paul Fuller University of Sydney Department of Studies in Religion Woolley Building Room N424 NSW 2006 Australia From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 26 12:25:12 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 26 12:25:19 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet Protest in DC March 31st In-Reply-To: <47EA539F.1040806@cola.iges.org> References: <47EA539F.1040806@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <008f01c88f6e$bb3b4f60$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> I just received this in my inbox: "I'm writing now to everyone I've met or who's contacted me in the past few days about solidarity demonstrations in DC for Tibet. The next major day will be Monday, March 31 at the Whitehouse, beginning at 12:30 in the afternoon. I'm still awaiting details from the organizers but I want to get the date and time out to you all ASAP. A number of people will be bussing in from along the east coast - Boston, NYC, etc. - to join us." It is from Rich Felker, Mid-Atlantic Regional Coordinator for Students for a Free Tibet. Sounds like it could be big! Curt Steinmetz _______________________________________________ The Dharamshala leader of Students for a Free Tibet was interviewed on NPR this morning. He clearly said they want independence from China, did not attack HHDL but did say they disagree with his politics, which they think haven't worked because "the Chinese are insincere." Exact quote. But it seems so early for demos to b e effective--the games don't start until August. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 8:52 AM From david.r.webster at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Mar 26 15:51:23 2008 From: david.r.webster at blueyonder.co.uk (David Webster) Date: Wed Mar 26 15:51:19 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? In-Reply-To: <1fd1fcf10803260222x22f61c9er705d48d3e44f6eee@mail.gmail.com> References: <1fd1fcf10803260222x22f61c9er705d48d3e44f6eee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In people's heads.... maybe ---------------------------------------- Dr David Webster Course Leader: Religion, Philosophy & Ethics University of Gloucestershire 01242 71 4778 e-mail: dwebster@glos.ac.uk University Site: http://www.glos.ac.uk Course blog: http://www.r-p-e.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fuller Sent: 26 March 2008 09:22 To: buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? I enjoy teaching about Pure Lands to students, I think you can cover a lot of ground about Buddhism in discussing them. But students ask some great, and simple questions. Like: 'where are the Pure Lands'? And where, for that matter is earth in relation to them? I'm aware of all sorts of ways to answer this, but I'm looking for a specific answer to do with their 'actual' location. Any ideas? Cheers, Paul -- Dr. Paul Fuller University of Sydney Department of Studies in Religion Woolley Building Room N424 NSW 2006 Australia _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 25/03/2008 19:17 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 25/03/2008 19:17 From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 26 16:33:09 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 26 16:33:11 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? In-Reply-To: References: <1fd1fcf10803260222x22f61c9er705d48d3e44f6eee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003e01c88f91$5ec38180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> In some of Thich Nhat Hanh's books, and also in Buddhadasa's _Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree_ (as I recall) they both speak of attaining the Pure Land through right-everything on the list, plus mindfulness meditation. So you're right--it dwells inwardly, via cultivation. The myths (E. Asian? Not sure of Indian) locate the Pure Land in the West somewhere, but none say precisely where. If paintings interest you, check out especially pp. 50-67 in _Performing the Visual : The Practice of Buddhist Wall Painting in China and Central Asia, 618-960_, by Sarah E. Fraser. Stanford UP, 2004. This book has lots of the various paradises of the main Buddhas. Maitreya rules the paradise of the Future, and this is where most East Asian Pure Landers plan to go after death, or to Amitaabha's jeweled paradise. Joanna ================================== In people's heads.... maybe ---------------------------------------- Dr David Webster Course Leader: Religion, Philosophy & Ethics University of Gloucestershire 01242 71 4778 e-mail: dwebster@glos.ac.uk University Site: http://www.glos.ac.uk Course blog: http://www.r-p-e.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fuller Sent: 26 March 2008 09:22 To: buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? I enjoy teaching about Pure Lands to students, I think you can cover a lot of ground about Buddhism in discussing them. But students ask some great, and simple questions. Like: 'where are the Pure Lands'? And where, for that matter is earth in relation to them? I'm aware of all sorts of ways to answer this, but I'm looking for a specific answer to do with their 'actual' location. Any ideas? Cheers, Paul -- Dr. Paul Fuller University of Sydney Department of Studies in Religion Woolley Building Room N424 NSW 2006 Australia _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 25/03/2008 19:17 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 25/03/2008 19:17 _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 8:52 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 8:52 AM From jkirk at spro.net Wed Mar 26 16:49:43 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Wed Mar 26 16:49:44 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A sobering read In-Reply-To: <47EA6273.10902@cola.iges.org> References: <47E95062.7030602@cola.iges.org> <47E95AE1.6030904@cola.iges.org> <001501c88ecb$3b8bebb0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <002201c88eec$88fe1c80$ccb81aac@comp.nus.edu.sg><47EA4178.6010707@cola.iges.org> <47EA6273.10902@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <005101c88f93$aed57b90$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> He apparently aspires to be the Tibetan equivalent of Lord Haw Haw. Curt Steinmetz _______________________________________________ Looks like he already made the grade. JK No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 8:52 AM From wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg Wed Mar 26 17:30:15 2008 From: wongwf at comp.nus.edu.sg (Wong Weng Fai) Date: Wed Mar 26 17:30:25 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? In-Reply-To: <003e01c88f91$5ec38180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <1fd1fcf10803260222x22f61c9er705d48d3e44f6eee@mail.gmail.com> <003e01c88f91$5ec38180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, jkirk wrote: > The myths (E. Asian? Not sure of Indian) locate the Pure Land in the West > somewhere, but none say precisely where. There are pure lands (Buddha fields) in all the ten directions. The one in the West of ours (Sukhavati) happens to have more connections and is thus better known to us. The idea is that whenever a Buddha is present (or whose Dharma remains in effect), there is a sphere of influence established by him that because of his infinite good karma and wisdom is pure. So even in our Saha world, Buddha Sakyamuni established a pure land. It is, however, only accessible to the faithful who both believe and practice his teachings. As a teacher told me before, some one who is a non-believer, even in the presence of the Buddha will see nothing more than a monk. A non-believer witnessing Buddha's enlightenment under the Bodhi tree will see nothing but a monk quietly meditating under a tree. The faithful will witness an altogether different experience. W.F. Wong From dharmafarer at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 20:15:53 2008 From: dharmafarer at gmail.com (Piya Tan) Date: Wed Mar 26 20:16:00 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? In-Reply-To: <003e01c88f91$5ec38180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <1fd1fcf10803260222x22f61c9er705d48d3e44f6eee@mail.gmail.com> <003e01c88f91$5ec38180$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: Joanna, In this connection, it is worthwhile to read Paul M Harrison's *"Buddhaanusmr.ti in the Pratyutpanna-buddha-sam.mukhaavasthita- samaadhi-suutra" *in the Journal of Indian Philosophy 6 1978:35-57. Harrison gives an interesting account that ancient text, one of the first on Pure Land Buddhism also talks about smrtyupasthana (satipatthana). The "Pure Lands" were probably originally meditation mandalas, but in due course, became "universes" of their own. Nevertheless they serve as useful mind-stilling practices for many (mostly) faith-inclined devotees. In a sense, these paradises also represent the best we can visually and palpably represent nirvana. In religion, it is useful, when one is able to, to distinguish between narrative and reality, between the conventional and the real, between the constructed and the unconstructed. The former is like a map, while the latter is the territory. Piya Tan On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:33 AM, jkirk wrote: > In some of Thich Nhat Hanh's books, and also in Buddhadasa's _Heartwood of > the Bodhi Tree_ (as I recall) they both speak of attaining the Pure Land > through right-everything on the list, plus mindfulness meditation. So > you're > right--it dwells inwardly, via cultivation. > The myths (E. Asian? Not sure of Indian) locate the Pure Land in the West > somewhere, but none say precisely where. If paintings interest you, check > out especially pp. 50-67 in _Performing the Visual : The Practice of > Buddhist Wall Painting in China and Central Asia, 618-960_, by Sarah E. > Fraser. Stanford UP, 2004. This book has lots of the various paradises of > the main Buddhas. Maitreya rules the paradise of the Future, and this is > where most East Asian Pure Landers plan to go after death, or to > Amitaabha's > jeweled paradise. > > Joanna > ================================== > > > In people's heads.... > maybe > > ---------------------------------------- > Dr David Webster > Course Leader: Religion, Philosophy & Ethics University of Gloucestershire > > 01242 71 4778 > e-mail: dwebster@glos.ac.uk > > > University Site: http://www.glos.ac.uk > > > > Course blog: http://www.r-p-e.blogspot.com > ---------------------------------------- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com > [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Paul Fuller > Sent: 26 March 2008 09:22 > To: buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > Subject: [Buddha-l] Where are the Pure Lands? > > I enjoy teaching about Pure Lands to students, I think you can cover a lot > of ground about Buddhism in discussing them. But students ask some great, > and simple questions. Like: 'where are the Pure Lands'? And where, for > that > matter is earth in relation to them? I'm aware of all sorts of ways to > answer this, but I'm looking for a specific answer to do with their > 'actual' > location. Any ideas? > > Cheers, > > Paul > > -- > Dr. Paul Fuller > University of Sydney > Department of Studies in Religion > Woolley Building > Room N424 > NSW 2006 > Australia > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: > 25/03/2008 > 19:17 > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: > 25/03/2008 > 19:17 > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 > 8:52 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 > 8:52 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- The Minding Centre Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr) Singapore 650644 Meditation courses & therapy: http://themindingcentre.googlepages.com Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com From curt at cola.iges.org Thu Mar 27 07:35:23 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Thu Mar 27 07:35:32 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] "Mayhem in Beijing" has a nice ring to it In-Reply-To: <47EB7B07.7040409@gmx.net> References: <000001c88908$7d51b6b0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47DFE821.3030403@cola.iges.org> <47E3BC81.2030002@gmx.net> <47E3BFD4.1070804@cola.iges.org><47E3D5EF.7080901@gmx.net> <47E3D938.8050805@cola.iges.org><00ec01c88b7d$92ba12a0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47E4069E.2020309@cola.iges.org> <002201c88b87$9c94c360$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> <47E40A2D.7020506@cola.iges.org> <47EB7B07.7040409@gmx.net> Message-ID: <47EBA29B.3070406@cola.iges.org> File this one under "E" for "equanimity is over-rated". (from the Students for a Free Tibet website: http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/article.php?id=1409 ) *MP calls for 'mayhem in Beijing'* Herald Sun "We have to make the Chinese Communists truly regret wanting to organise the Games," Daniel Cohn-Bendit, a Green member of the European Parliament and a leader of the 1968 French student uprising, said on France 2 television. "All European Union countries should boycott the opening of the Olympic Games" on August 8, he said. "In the words of May 1968, we have to 'cause mayhem in Beijing'," he said, in protest at the Chinese crackdown in Tibet which, according to Tibetan exile groups, has left at least 140 dead in the past 10 days. "That means that during the Games we run, jump and swim, but at the same time we have civic-minded athletes showing their solidarity with Tibet with orange armbands and headscarves," Mr Cohn-Bendit said. "We need civic-minded journalists who not only cover the Olympic Games but also go and talk to dissidents. "I hear access to Tiananmen Square will be banned during the Olympic Games. "Let's occupy Tiananmen Square. We'll see if the Chinese army tanks intervene." Mr Cohn-Bendit also attacked the decision to award the Games to China. "You do not give the Olympics to totalitarian countries as is the case here, because you will always end up with the same problem," he said. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said this week he would consider boycotting the opening ceremony of the Olympics if China refuses to enter into a dialogue with the Dalai Lama on Tibet, though other world leaders are vowing to attend. From franz at mind2mind.net Thu Mar 27 11:11:02 2008 From: franz at mind2mind.net (Franz Metcalf) Date: Thu Mar 27 11:11:15 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read Message-ID: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net> Gang, By way of contrast to Patrick French, I share this different perspective (in several ways) on the Dalai Lama's political acumen. It came to me via a Buddhist email list and was written by Siddiq Wahid, a person unknown to me but who was identified in the email's introduction as professor and Vice Chancellor at the Kashmir Islamic University. The entire piece is too long to share here and I cannot find a url for it. But I share its final three paragraphs, followed by a comment from me. > The Dalai Lama, in his wisdom, has pronounced that the Olympics must > not be damaged. We can attribute this wisdom in part to his concern > for the lives and limbs of Tibetans in Tibet and his identification > with compassion incarnate, being as he is the embodiment of > Avalokiteshvara, the Bodhisattva of Compassion. In part we can also > attribute it to his political wisdom in keeping the door open for > dialogue. But what option do the ordinary Tibetans have? Especially > in the face of the vicious personal attacks on the person of the > Dalai Lama and the continued disingenuousness with which they have > rejected huge concessions he has made to the Chinese State over the > years. The Tibetans are doing what any peoples who are threatened > with cultural extinction will do: they are saying, "thus far and no > further." > > Elliot Sperling, in a recent opinion piece published in the Times of > India (March 17th, 2008), has faulted the Dalai Lama for his > "political naivet? and desperation" which has resulted in > "ratchet[ing] down" his position "from Tibetan independence, to real > autonomy to simple cultural rights." This is the argument of a > political historian, looking at events from a perspective > sympathetic to Tibetans but unable to identify with the real danger: > a long term arrangement that regains territory but compromises a > worldview. The Dalai Lama's approach has served to expose this > intent of the Government of the PRC. Its complete disregard for his > reconciliatory line of attack has shown how confident it is in its > disregard for the truth. The Dalai Lama's method, in fact, is a > measure of how confident he is of the strength of Buddhism to > survive, even in China, if the latter guarantees real freedom to the > Tibetans to practice their religion. As a Buddhist monk he cannot > deny change, but he is confident enough to ask that the Tibetan > people be allowed to dictate its nature and pace. The truth is that > China is unwilling to do this. In the face of China's turning a deaf > ear to the truth, the only way the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans can > fight back is to continue to tell the truth again and again to China > and the world at large. As Chinua Achebe has said, "Telling the > truth is the only way, in the long run, to get listened to." > > Cherish the Tibetan people, for they show the way to all who fight > the uphill battle against today's politics and ideologies of > hegemonic homogeneity, everywhere. It seems to me that Wahid is pointing out something that ought to be obvious from a Buddhist perspective, but is entirely absent from the media coverage I've seen on the protests: that Buddhism doesn't care a fig for nations and just maybe the Dalai Lama doesn't, either. It is simply not important to the Buddhadharma or to the awakening of all beings or even to the happiness of the Tibetan people whether there is a Tibet. Freedom, as Americans are perhaps at last remembering, is not given to us by government. Not even government by Tibetans. The Tibetans proved that for some centuries. Sperling sees as "ratchet[ting] down" the shift from independence to cultural rights. Perhaps the Dalai Lama sees it as simply refocusing. Wahid seems to see this strategy as good politics in the face of hegemonic ideology. I see it as good Buddhism. Franz From curt at cola.iges.org Thu Mar 27 12:31:04 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Thu Mar 27 12:31:21 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read In-Reply-To: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net> References: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net> Message-ID: <47EBE7E8.30202@cola.iges.org> Franz Metcalf wrote: > > It seems to me that Wahid is pointing out something that ought to be > obvious from a Buddhist perspective, but is entirely absent from the > media coverage I've seen on the protests: that Buddhism doesn't care a > fig for nations and just maybe the Dalai Lama doesn't, either. The problem here is that Buddhism has existed for 2500 years in Asia - and all during that time Buddhists have consistently defended their nations against attacks from their neighbors (who, as often as not, are Buddhists, too!). Nor is there any evidence of any Buddhist teachers, including Old Shakyamuni, ever encouraging political leaders to abandon the principle of national self-defense. And today a great many (probably most) Tibetan Buddhists do not share the Dalai Lama's views. So it is wrong to identify an absence of concern for national self-defense as something that is "obvious from a Buddhist perspective". Curt Steinmetz From curt at cola.iges.org Thu Mar 27 12:32:03 2008 From: curt at cola.iges.org (Curt Steinmetz) Date: Thu Mar 27 12:32:11 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read In-Reply-To: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net> References: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net> Message-ID: <47EBE823.6030902@cola.iges.org> Franz Metcalf wrote: >> >> Elliot Sperling, in a recent opinion piece published in the Times of >> India (March 17th, 2008), has faulted the Dalai Lama for his >> "political naivet? and desperation" One can differ with His Holiness in a way that is respectful and that encourages dialog - and I think that most people who support full independence have expressed themselves in that way. I am puzzled by the tone of Elliot Sperling's snide remarks about HHDL. Calling His Holiness "naive and desperate" is, I think, not in any way representative of the people who support Tibet independence. Curt Steinmetz From jkirk at spro.net Thu Mar 27 15:05:04 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Thu Mar 27 15:05:08 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read In-Reply-To: <47EBE7E8.30202@cola.iges.org> References: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net> <47EBE7E8.30202@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <002301c8904e$3c628ec0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> The problem here is that Buddhism has existed for 2500 years in Asia - and all during that time Buddhists have consistently defended their nations against attacks from their neighbors (who, as often as not, are Buddhists, too!). Nor is there any evidence of any Buddhist teachers, including Old Shakyamuni, ever encouraging political leaders to abandon the principle of national self-defense. And today a great many (probably most) Tibetan Buddhists do not share the Dalai Lama's views. So it is wrong to identify an absence of concern for national self-defense as something that is "obvious from a Buddhist perspective". Curt Steinmetz ================== Agreed..........look at Buddhism in Sri Lanka--gone totally cultural/national-istic. The history of Vietnam for 1000 years under the Chinese also indicates rebellions and defensive measures to control and rule their own Viet territory. Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 10:03 AM From jkirk at spro.net Thu Mar 27 18:14:14 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Thu Mar 27 18:14:14 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Another view on the Tibet issue Message-ID: <000001c89068$a8164750$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20080326&fname=puri&sid=1 OPINION Dialogue Of The Deaf To write off the Tibet unrest would be premature. There is much that could follow the uprising in Lhasa. President Hu Jintao needs to read carefully the writing on the wall. ... Rajinder Puri Excerpt: "...Beijing's clampdown on the Tibetan unrest has been inexplicably harsh. Beijing's man in Tibet, Zhang Quingli, is a rigid hardliner. Under him the state media in Tibet has described the unrest as a "life and death struggle" between China and the Dalai Lama's followers. China's state-controlled media has called the Dalai Lama a "wolf in monk's robes". The reason for such hysteria is that the prestige of President Hu Jintao is involved. He was the author of China's hard-line Tibet policy. That policy is not succeeding. But its continuation is considered necessary in order to protect President Hu's reputation." This is aninteresting commentary--Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 10:03 AM From franz at mind2mind.net Thu Mar 27 19:43:51 2008 From: franz at mind2mind.net (Franz Metcalf) Date: Thu Mar 27 19:44:04 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read In-Reply-To: <002301c8904e$3c628ec0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> References: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net> <47EBE7E8.30202@cola.iges.org> <002301c8904e$3c628ec0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: Gang, I should have been more careful in my offhand comments in my last post. Curt and Joanna are right that Buddhists, as seemingly all religionists throughout space and time, have most often been more concerned with nation and tribe than with that which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to higher knowledge, to full awakening, to Nibb?na. What I really meant to say was that the *dharma* did not care for nations. This I still think is largely true. So I disagree, Curt, with your assertion that there is no "evidence of any Buddhist teachers, including Old Shakyamuni, ever encouraging political leaders to abandon the principle of national self-defense." I admit you've left some room for common ground, as what you did was deny a negative. So let me rephrase: I *do* think there's reason to say the Buddha taught the non-importance of nations or at least the defense of nations. Might you agree to that? If not, I'll add we've discussed this at some length here on buddha-l. If I get time I'll look for the thread. But for now, here are two links to a very convincing (at least to me) paper on the notion of Buddhism and war, by James A. Stroble at the University of Hawaii. Just as I write this, neither link works. Grrrr. But perhaps they will work for you: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~stroble/BUDDWAR.HTM http://www2.hawaii.edu/~stroble/Buddhism_and_War.html And here's a link I just found (and have not read), to Eric Sean Nelson's syllabus on Buddhism and War: http://www.aarweb.org/syllabus/syllabi/n/nelson/nelson-20040823/buddhismandwar.htm What you you think? Franz =========================================== Franz Metcalf, PhD. 323.467.3267 http://mind2mind.net Buddhist Author, Teacher, Scholar, Husband, Dad, Beginner From dayamati at gmail.com Thu Mar 27 21:08:59 2008 From: dayamati at gmail.com (Richard Hayes) Date: Thu Mar 27 21:09:06 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Education and religious affiliation Message-ID: Denizens, Some time ago James Coleman made the claim that Buddhists are probably the most highly educated religious group in the United States. (I guess he had never heard of Jews.) His data were highly suspect, since he seems to have surveyed only non-Asian Buddhists. So what he was really talking about were Americans of European and African ancestry who had adopted Buddhism as adults. (On the H-BUDDHISM list a few weeks ago there was a discussion of the unreliable data that Pew had published on the Buddhist population of the United States; the criticism of those data was that they were collected by interviews conducted in English and Spanish and therefore presumably missed hordes of Asians who speak neither of those two languages.) The Pew Foundation recently published a variety of statistics on a variety of religious affiliations found in the United States. According to their findings, Buddhists (which show that 32% of Buddhists polled were of Asian ethnicity) were not the most highly educated religious denomination in the USA. Here is a list of denominations surveyed, along with the percentage of people claiming to belong to those denominations with bachelors or post-graduate degrees. Jewish 79% (Combines reform and conservative) Hindu 74% Unitarian 51% Buddhist 48% Orthodox Christian 46% Agnostic 43% Atheist 42% Mainline Protestant 34% Mormon 28% Catholic 26% Muslim 24% Evangelical Protestant 20% Jehovah Witness 9% None of these statistics surprised me much; I thought the number of Unitarians with college degrees might be higher than it is. And perhaps I learned that my views on what average Muslims are like has been skewed by the fact that 95% of the Muslims I happen to know are highly educated and may not be representative. What did surprise me a little bit was the high percentage of Buddhists who make less than $30,000 a year (25%) and the percentage who make more than %100,000 a year (22%). In contrast, Orthodox Christians, who have about the same educational levels, have 20% and 28% in those respective income levels. Not surprisingly, the more highly educated Jews have 14% and 46% at those two levels. Here are some other statistics about American Buddhists that caught my eye. I report the category with the largest percentage under each statistical heading: 40% are aged 30-49; 53% are male; 45% are married; 70% have no children. (Ever wondered why Buddhism has no future in America?) Vanity required that I determine how typical I am of an American Buddhist. Not very, it turns out. I'm among the 30% between 50 and 64 (I turned 63 today!). I'm also among the 53% male, the 53% white, the 17% who make between $50-75K, the 26% with a post-graduate degree, the 45% married and the 11% with two children. Aside from being a married white male, I'm in the minority in most categories. No wonder so many of the denizens of Buddha-L disagree with me on just about everything. If you want to see how typical YOU are, go to http://religions.pewforum.org/portraits I might as well announce it here first: I have decided not to run for President of the United States this year. -- Richard Hayes (Dayamati) http://dayamati.home.comcast.net http://dayamati.blogspot.com From jkirk at spro.net Thu Mar 27 21:46:55 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Thu Mar 27 21:46:55 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read In-Reply-To: References: <9F9B484C-9B92-419F-BDE7-5CA18EEFBC35@mind2mind.net><47EBE7E8.30202@cola.iges.org><002301c8904e$3c628ec0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Message-ID: <001301c89086$5e379ee0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> Last sentence in Nelson link: "Finally, some Buddhists reject all violence as an impediment to nibbana and promote the peace process. They argue for the deontological status of Buddhist precepts and the emotional and karmic consequences of all action: violence no matter how righteous always produces more violence and warriors no matter how virtuous suffer the consequences of war. Thus, according to the Buddha, "Conquest begets enmity; the conquered live in misery; the peaceful live happily having renounced conquest and defeat" (Dhammapada, verse 201)." This comes just as the case of Arjuna's and the Pandavas' final denouement appeared on another list, with the scenario that they had to go to Hell first, to work off the results of their warring and killing against the Kauravas, whereas the Kauravas went to Heaven due to results of their good deeds before the Mahabharata war---but in time both groups would be reborn in the opposite places--Pandavas in heaven and Kauravas in Hell. So, aside from Buddhism, a major Hindu epic decided that the bad karma of making war cannot be avoided. It reminds me of the scroll I bought at the Tu Hieu monastery in Hue, Vietnam, that says (as they told me since I don't know Vietnamese), "a peaceful heart is the best medicine." But besides the morals of these stories, it might also be worth saying that, as Buddhism historically was supported most effectively and generously by royals, and it was royals who made wars, the royals and the sangha were embedded in the institution of patronage, and so inevitably got dragged into it, on occasion. But how about the story in the Pali texts where the Buddha makes peace between two hill kingdoms that were about to go to war? (Sorry, don't have the citation right now.) Joanna ====================== -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces@mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Franz Metcalf Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:44 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] A More Encouraging Read Gang, I should have been more careful in my offhand comments in my last post. Curt and Joanna are right that Buddhists, as seemingly all religionists throughout space and time, have most often been more concerned with nation and tribe than with that which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to higher knowledge, to full awakening, to Nibb?na. What I really meant to say was that the *dharma* did not care for nations. This I still think is largely true. So I disagree, Curt, with your assertion that there is no "evidence of any Buddhist teachers, including Old Shakyamuni, ever encouraging political leaders to abandon the principle of national self-defense." I admit you've left some room for common ground, as what you did was deny a negative. So let me rephrase: I *do* think there's reason to say the Buddha taught the non-importance of nations or at least the defense of nations. Might you agree to that? If not, I'll add we've discussed this at some length here on buddha-l. If I get time I'll look for the thread. But for now, here are two links to a very convincing (at least to me) paper on the notion of Buddhism and war, by James A. Stroble at the University of Hawaii. Just as I write this, neither link works. Grrrr. But perhaps they will work for you: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~stroble/BUDDWAR.HTM http://www2.hawaii.edu/~stroble/Buddhism_and_War.html And here's a link I just found (and have not read), to Eric Sean Nelson's syllabus on Buddhism and War: http://www.aarweb.org/syllabus/syllabi/n/nelson/nelson-20040823/buddhismandw ar.htm What you you think? Franz =========================================== Franz Metcalf, PhD. 323.467.3267 http://mind2mind.net Buddhist Author, Teacher, Scholar, Husband, Dad, Beginner _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 10:03 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 10:03 AM From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Thu Mar 27 23:59:51 2008 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu Mar 27 23:00:13 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Education and religious affiliation References: Message-ID: <00cd01c89098$f7850da0$be369c04@Dan> >(I turned 63 today!). Happy birthday, Richard. Many sukhic returns! Dan From c_castell at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 02:51:29 2008 From: c_castell at yahoo.com (Catalina) Date: Fri Mar 28 02:51:44 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Education and religious affiliation In-Reply-To: <00cd01c89098$f7850da0$be369c04@Dan> Message-ID: <118761.10243.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> happy birthday Coyote!!!!! Catalina --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. From jkirk at spro.net Sat Mar 29 11:20:45 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Sat Mar 29 11:20:41 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Earth Hour TODAY--PL pass to your lists, folks Message-ID: <000601c891c1$392fd1d0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> If Buddha were alive today I believe he would turn off the lights too, reminding us to attend to the inner light :) Joanna ========================================== On Saturday, March 29, 2008, Earth Hour invites people around the world to turn off their lights for one hour ? from 8:00pm to 9:00pm in their local time zone. On this day, cities around the world, including Copenhagen, Chicago, Melbourne, Dubai, and Tel Aviv, will hold events to acknowledge their commitment to energy conservation. Here's the Earth Hour website with a great video clip of lights going out around the globe. http://www11.earthhourus.org/ be not confused by the video--here in USA the date is today, 3/29/08 Around the world with EarthHour: http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/EarthHour/article/350711 Let's do it Jo No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM From cfynn at gmx.net Mon Mar 31 00:39:50 2008 From: cfynn at gmx.net (Christopher Fynn) Date: Mon Mar 31 00:40:43 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] Tibet: Open Letter from Concerned Tibetan Studies Scholars Message-ID: <47F08736.5030006@gmx.net> A STATEMENT BY CONCERNED TIBETAN STUDIES SCHOLARS ON THE CURRENT CRISIS IN TIBET ADDRESSED TO PRESIDENT HU JINTAO AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA President Hu Jintao People?s Republic of China Zhongnanhai, Xichengqu, Beijing City People?s Republic of China Dear Mr. President, Over the course of the last two weeks the world has witnessed an outbreak of protests across the Tibetan plateau, followed in most instances by a harsh, violent repression. In the majority of cases these protests have been peaceful. The result has been an unknown number of arrests and the loss of numerous lives, which have been overwhelmingly Tibetan. This has understandably triggered widespread concern and anguish across the globe. As scholars engaged in Tibetan Studies, we are especially disturbed by what has been happening. The civilization we study is not simply a subject of academic enquiry: it is the heritage and fabric of a living people and one of the world?s great cultural legacies. We express our deep sorrow at the horrible deaths of the innocent, including Chinese as well as Tibetans. Life has been altered for the worse in places with which we are well acquainted; tragedy has entered the lives of a people we know well. At the time this statement is being written, continued arrests and shootings are being reported even of those involved in peaceful protest, the accused are being subjected to summary justice without due process and basic rights, and countless others are being forced to repeat political slogans and denunciations of their religious leader. Silence in the face of what is happening in Tibet is no longer an option. At this moment the suppression of political dissent appears to be the primary goal of authorities across all the Tibetan areas within China, which have been isolated from the rest of China and the outside world. But such actions will not eliminate the underlying sense of grievance to which Tibetans are giving voice. As scholars we have a vested interest in freedom of expression. The violation of that basic freedom and the criminalization of those sentiments that the Chinese government finds difficult to hear are counterproductive. They will contribute to instability and tension, not lessen them. It cannot be that the problem lies in the refusal of Tibetans to live within restrictions on speech and expression that none of us would accept in our own lives. It is not a question of what Tibetans are saying: it is a question of how they are being heard and answered. The attribution of the current unrest to the Dalai Lama represents a reluctance on the part of the Chinese government to acknowledge and engage with policy failures that are surely the true cause of popular discontent. The government?s continuing demonization of the Dalai Lama, which falls far below any standard of discourse accepted by the international community, serves only to fuel Tibetan anger and alienation. A situation has been created which can only meet with the strongest protest from those of us who have dedicated our professional lives to understanding Tibet?s past and its present; its culture and its society. Indeed, the situation has generated widespread shock among peoples inside and outside China as well, and we write in full sympathy with the twelve-point petition submitted by a group of Chinese writers and intellectuals on 22 March. Therefore, we call for an immediate end to the use of force against Tibetans within China. We call for an end to the suppression of Tibetan opinion, whatever form that suppression takes. And we call for the clear recognition that Tibetans, together with all citizens of China, are entitled to the full rights to free speech and expression guaranteed by international agreements and accepted human rights norms. Jean-Luc Achard (Centre National de La Recherche Scientifique, Paris) Agata Bareja-Starzy?ska (Warsaw University) Robert Barnett (Columbia University) Christopher Beckwith (Indiana University) Yael Bentor (Hebrew University, Jerusalem) Henk Blezer (Leiden University) Anne-Marie Blondeau (?cole pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Paris) Benjamin Bogin (Georgetown University) Jens Braarvig (University of Oslo) Katia Buffetrille (?cole pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Paris) Jos? Ignacio Cabez?n (University of California, Santa Barbara) Cathy Cantwell (University of Oxford) Bryan J. Cuevas (Florida State University) Jacob Dalton (Yale University) Ronald Davidson (Fairfield University) Karl Debreczeny (Independent Scholar) Andreas Doctor (Kathmandu University) Thierry Dodin (Bonn University) Brandon Dotson (School of Oriental and African Studies, London) Georges Dreyfus (Williams College) Douglas S. Duckworth (University of North Carolina) John Dunne (Emory University) Johan Elverskog (Southern Methodist University) Elena De Rossi Filibeck (University of Rome) Carla Gianotti (Independent Scholar) Maria Gruber (University of Applied Arts, Vienna) Janet Gyatso (Harvard University) Paul Harrison (Stanford University) Lauran Hartley (Columbia University) Mireille Helffer (Centre National de La Recherche Scientifique, Paris) Isabelle Henrion-Dourcy (Universit? Laval, Qu?bec) Toni Huber (Humboldt University , Berlin) Ishihama Yumiko (Waseda University) David Jackson (Rubin Museum of Art, New York) Sarah Jacoby (Columbia University) Marc des Jardins (Concordia University) Matthew T. Kapstein (University of Chicago; ?cole pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Paris) Gy?rgy Kara (Indiana University) Samten Karmay (Centre National de La Recherche Scientifique, Paris) P. Christiaan Klieger (Oakland Museum, California) Deborah Klimburg-Salter (University of Vienna) Leonard van der Kuijp (Harvard University) Per Kvaerne (University of Oslo) Erberto Lo Bue (University of Bologna) Donald Lopez (University of Michigan) Christian Luczanits (University of Vienna) Sara McClintock (Emory University) Carole McGranahan (University of Colorado) Ariane Macdonald-Spanien (?cole pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Paris) William Magee (Dharma Drum Buddhist College, Taiwan) Lara Maconi (Institut National des Langues et Civilisations Orientales, Paris) Dan Martin (Hebrew University, Jerusalem) Rob Mayer (University of Oxford) Fernand Meyer (?cole pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Paris) Eric D. Mortensen (Guilford College) Paul Nietupski (John Carroll University) Giacomella Orofino (Universit? degli Studi di Napoli ?L?Orientale) Ulrich Pagel (School of Oriental and African Studies, London) Andrew Quintman (Princeton University) Charles Ramble (University of Oxford) Fran?oise Robin (Institut National des Langues et Civilisations Orientales, Paris) Ulrike Roesler (University of Freiburg) Geoffrey Samuel (Cardiff University) Kurtis Schaeffer (University of Virginia) Cristina Scherrer-Schaub (University of Lausanne) Peter Schwieger (Bonn University) Tsering Shakya (University of British Columbia) Nicolas Sihle (University of Virginia) Elliot Sperling (Indiana University) Heather Stoddard (Institut National des Langues et Civilisations Orientales, Paris) Robert Thurman (Columbia University) Takeuchi Tsuguhito (Kobe City University of Foreign Studies) Gray Tuttle (Columbia University) Emily Yeh (University of Colorado) Ronit Yoeli-Tlalim (University College, London) Michael Zimmermann (University of Hamburg) Signatures added online: ..... If you have a scholarly focus on Tibet (whether it is primary or secondary), you can add your name online at From jkirk at spro.net Mon Mar 31 09:30:25 2008 From: jkirk at spro.net (jkirk) Date: Mon Mar 31 09:30:19 2008 Subject: [Buddha-l] FW: Tibet's Struggle Message-ID: <001301c89344$243b89c0$0400a8c0@OPTIPLEX> >From Jeff Long: I thought you and others on the Buddhism list would find this article interesting. Please feel free to circulate it: Why are Nuns and Monks in the Streets? (Parts I & II) by Jose Cabezon. http://religiondispatches.org/Gui/Content.aspx?Page=AR&Id=145 All the best, Jeff Dr. Jeffery D. Long Associate Professor of Religion and Asian Studies Chair, Department of Religious Studies Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA 17022 "One who makes a habit of meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." (Holy Mother Sharada Devi) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1350 - Release Date: 3/30/2008 12:32 PM