[Buddha-l] H.H. The Dalai Lama on Stone and Karma

[jkirk]

 Thanks Jim and Richard for once again demolishing the common
view of karma. I suspect like you it's an artifact of Hinduism,
left over in the original populations that eventually ended up as
Buddhists, where it is still found on a daily basis. The idea
that you are born deformed, ugly, mentally deranged, or poor, (or
anything not considered auspicious and beneficial), due to evil
acts done in a previous life, is very prevalent in both India and
Thailand (as well I suspect in the rest of southeast Asia; what
about Tibet?). 

In India this idea is also used as religious justification for
being born in a low caste, or as an untouchable (dalit, harijan).
Unfortunately, still today many untouchables, having been
brainwashed and badly treated for centuries, have absorbed
identification with the aggressor and continue to believe it.
However, a heck of a lot of them no longer accept it, especially
those who converted to Buddhism under Ambedkar's leadership, or
who have joined up with political parties of resistance, or left
India.
Joanna

-----Original Message-----
From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com
[mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Peavler
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:08 AM

Thanks, Doc, for the short and clear differentiation and
isolation of the pop version of karma. I was in the middle of
struggling with my periodic rant: karma is impossible to predict
or evaluate and is useless as a guide to life or a guide to
judging others [which you shouldn't be doing anyway] because
every effect has over a pentillion distinct causes and every
cause [such as an act or a failure to act has at least a million
tera-pentillion effects, most of them bad.

You managed to clear the whole thing up by simply pointing out
that the view of karma in question is actually bullshit (which I
believe the buddha pointed out some years ago,

Isn't some of this popular view of karma an imbedded fossil of
Hinduism?


On Jun 14, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Richard Hayes wrote:
>
>> For example, physical beauty/non-beauty in this life, as a
result of 
>> "good" or "bad" karma in a previous life.
>
> That is pure bullshit. This is a feature of a vulgar
understanding of 
> karma entertained by ignorant people seeking legitimacy for
their 
> benighted Schadenfreude.
>
>> So, is there a "traditional/orthodox" view of causation/karma
and 
>> then a "popular" one? If so, what are their origins?
>
> Yes, exactly. The abhidharmic view has its origins in wisdom
and 
> careful reflection, and the popular view has its roots in
greed, 
> hatred and delusion. In the popular view, karmic ripening is
often 
> seen as retribution, as getting "paid back" for something
displeasing 
> one has done. (Sharon Stone's comments, which are by now far
better 
> known than anything Bhuddhaghosa or Vasubandhu ever said on the

> subject, stem from an angry feeling about the way the Chinese
have 
> dealt with Tibetans and from a perhaps unacknowledged desire
for 
> revenge. Anger and desire for revenge are pretty unenlightened,
I 
> think you'll agree.)
>
> --
> Richard Hayes
> Department of Philosophy
> University of New Mexico

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