[Buddha-l] Emptiness

[Vera, Pedro L.]

Jackhat at aol.com wrote:
 
>Here is my understanding. Emptiness in the Pali Canon is emptiness of an 
>unchanging, independent reality. Take a cart apart and you can't find anything 
>unchanging and independent that is the essence of that cart. But, the cart is 
>still real. That's one teaching. Another teaching is that the cart is real in
>a  conventional sense but can be reduced to ultimates which is the real real.
> Examples of ultimate's in this case could be hardness, smell, and color of
>the  cart's wood. There are others.

>I guess the Mahayana view is that the cart doesn't exist.

I don't think so Jack. I don't have references handy at the moment but I can dig them up later. In my understanding, the distinction is always made when talking about emptiness about being empty of inherent existence. This is much like (or essentially the same) as you describe in the first part of your paragraph above.
 
It does not mean that the cart (or any other object, including persons) does not exist, but that what we see and call a cart is a confluence of factors that arise and will eventually cease. I don't think (but I leave it up the scholars of the list to deal with this if they want to) that there's not much "ultimate" in this scheme. So I typically don't think of reducing items of perception to ultimates that are really real. I think that hardness, smell and color of wood are still composites that will dissolve into something else eventually. I think the whole point is to reduce clinging and attachment.
 
I hope this helps.
 
Regards,
 
Pedro