[Buddha-l] the benefits of Jayarava's discussion

[jkirk]

Hi Diana
I can't find where I said "disappointing" in what I wrote. 
It's one rendering of dukkha found here and there which I too
don't find useful.
Joanna 

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Joanna,
I couldn't begin to argue translations, but as a nonacademic
Western Buddhist, saying that "all things are disappointing"
doesn't sound at all like saying "all things are impermanent."
Disappointing has such an emotional charge to it, while
impermanent sounds more factual.  And emotion doesn't seem to me
what Buddha would be emphasizing in his last moments on earth.
I could be wrong.

Diana


----- Original Message -----
From: "jkirk" <jkirk at spro.net>
To: "'Buddhist discussion forum'" <buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:31 PM
Subject: [Buddha-l] the benefits of Jayarava's discussion


>
> Since Richard called our attention to Jayarava, including a
link
> to his blog, http://jayarava.blogspot.com/ ,
> I've been advidly reading his articles. What richness of food
for
> thought is there.
>
> Reading two articles today, I found his translation of the
> Buddha's last words here:
> http://jayarava.org/buddhas-last-words.html ,
>
> and another article on the khandas as the apparatus of
experience
> rather than as metaphysical entity. Also his rendering of
> dhammaas as experiences, rather than things, under certain
> conditions within the discourse:  see
>
> http://jayarava.blogspot.com/  08 August 2008,
> The Apparatus of Experience.
>
> What struck me as more useful in the Buddha's last words than
> Rhys Davids's translation, the one I'm most familiar with:
> something like, "all compounded things are impermanent, so work
> out your salvation with diligence", which Jayarava says is
closer
> to his understanding of the terms, is Jayarava's translation
> which goes,
>
> "All things are disappointing, [it is] through vigilance [that]
> you succeed."
>
> His choice of the term 'vigilance' hit me as truly useful,
> because the idea of 'diligence' suggests expending hard
> work-energy on something, while vigilance suggests vipassana,
or
> insight, as the word includes the idea of  'to see'.  We
already
> know, and I suspect the Buddha's monks knew, that hard work was
> part of the effort, it could be assumed. But 'vigilance' --
there
> lies the possibility of not being befuddled by wishful thinking
> in the process.
>
> About 'experience' vs. 'things' he wrote: _this has profound
> implications for how we practice and teach the Dharma. For one
> thing I think we should abandon talking about dependent arising
> in terms of "things arising in dependence on causes" - there
are
> no things only experiences. It would be more accurate to say
that
> "experiences of things arise in dependence on causes". This
then
> allows us to focus on the experience of dependent arising,
rather
> than trying to locate some object which is arising. So many of
> our metaphors for dependent arising involve "things". But
because
> of the way we function - through and only through experience -
> there are in effect no things arising._
>
> Ofen in common discourse the first noble truth is presented as
> 'all things' are: suffering, transitory, unsatisfactory,
> stressful, etc.
>
> Jayarava's discussion, by a change of term and emphasis, from
> 'things' to 'experiences', helps to turn attention  toward
> reflecting on experience, rather than trying to figure out what
> 'things' out there objectively are causing the suffering. We
are
> causing it. This came to me as an insight today from reading
> these articles; I realise that others might have already been
> there.
>
> Thanks, Jayarava.
>
> Joanna
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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