[Buddha-l] Re: Aama do.sa I

[Dan Lusthaus]

Joy,

Joy:
> Difference? Michel Strickmann (him again) mentions a period of great
anxiety in the 2-3rd century in China and quotes the end of the
Sukhaavatii-vyuuha, in which the Buddha teaches that his teaching will last
1000 years, after which period will appear the pure land teachings that will
last 100 years. Basically this text says that there is no time to lose.
Strickmann adds that apart from the moral and personal karmic incentive,
there was now a historical one as well. Texts appearing at that time came
with slogans: Hold me, recite me, copy me, preach me and diffuse me or else!
Contemporary advertising hasn't invented anything!

Dan:
The Latter Han dynasty disintegrated by repeated millenarian revolts, most
associated with early forms of religious Daoism, that, on many levels, echo
eschatological and cosmological schemas current in the eastern Mediterranean
at that time, though with distinctively Chinese flavors and frames. There
were a range of Buddhist apocryphal apocalyptic sutras that began to receive
more attention and popularity in that period as well (Jan Nattier's Once
Upon a Future Time details the development of that, leading to Mappo theory,
Nichiren, etc.). One lesson: when life becomes unstable, violent, disturbing
and uncertain, utopianism and messianism of various sorts emerge with great
popularity and society-altering power.

Joy:
> Out of curiosity, what would the Buddhist anti-tarka rhetoric have said
about a person claiming:
>
> "And what is the miracle of psychic power? There is the case where a
certain person wields manifold psychic powers. Having been one he becomes
many; having been many he beomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes
unimpeded through walls, ramparts, & mountains as if through space. He dives
in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without
sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the
air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun &
moon, so mighty & powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far
as the Brahma worlds. This is called the miracle of psychic power."

Dan:
Apples and oranges. There is nothing intrinsically tarka-related in
extravagant claims. But, to play along -- What the sober Buddhists would ask
is:
"Show me."
or better yet, "Show me how."
Evidence goes a long way.
If the claimant cannot demonstrate such techniques, then the followup
question would be: "How do you know that this can be done? Do you know
anyone who can do this, or have you seen anyone who can do this?"
If the response is "No," then he would be gently encouraged to stop
spreading such nonsense.  That, in fact, is how the Buddha in the Pali
nikayas responded to other sorts of extravagant claims. (Already in the
early suttas, simply making claims on the authority of 'The Buddha said so'
was chastised -- one should test and confirm claims for oneself).
If the claimant says that he can't do it, doesn't know anyone who can, and
anyway, it is not necessary to be able to do such things since they are
irrelevant and maybe even a distraction to making true progess on the Path
(which, in fact, is what we do find stated in early Buddhist texts), then
the question would be:
"If that is so, then why bring up this silly nonsense in the first place -- 
since it is irrelevant and only serves to distract people from what they
should be doing?"

Joy:
> Of course I would go for the clarity and precision, but our doctor, the
Buddha, had his weird moments too (see above). So I would hope he'd leave
his psychic powers aside. Doctor Buddha and mister Hyde.

Dan:
Well, Buddhist texts have interpolations, stratifications, etc., so we don't
really know what Siddhartha Gautama said, and which words were put into his
mouth later.

Joy:
That's not what I said. I said that the only liberation that can be achieved
through clarity and  precision I can imagine is liberation *from* lack of
clarity and *from* lack of  precision.

Dan:
Sorry for misunderstanding your meaning. The cardinal problem, according to
Buddhism, is avidya -- ignorance. So clear, precise thinking is an important
remedy -- a sufficient cause of Awakening according to Buddha.

Joy:
> I have no experience with that [nihilism]. I do not know if views and
philophies can be that efficient as to cause exactly that. Perhaps deep
depression or mental illness can do that, but those are not produced by a
philosophical view as far as I know.

Dan:
That is Arjuna's crisis in ch. 1 of the Bhagavad Gita; the reason Buddha
leaves home and runs to the forest according to Asvaghosa's Buddhacarita;
etc. It is the starting point which motivates the search and needs to be
overcome; but also the byproduct of lost aspirations or assumptions.
Similarly, one way to interest students in philosophy (especially
epistemology) is to undermine the naive realist convictions they arrive with
in class. Mother Theresa's recently published diaries show that she was
intimately familiar with this sort of nihilism as well -- which has
surprised many admirers, but shouldn't have. It is not necessarily simply
the views themselves that cause the nihilism (they are usually exactly the
sorts of views one clings to in order to avoid nihilism), rather it is the
clinging to them as what undergirds one's sense of reality and meaning that
leads to problems when the undergirding becomes undermined or revealed as
inadequate or erroneous. Losing one's raison d'être...

Dan