[Buddha-l] Victim?

[Christopher Fynn]

Joy Vriens wrote:

>>> As I see it, the complexity is mainly due to the dominating position that the highest yoga  
>>> tantra practices have taken from about the 15th century onwards, after a period of polemics.  

>> Perhaps we can (at least in part) blame this on the "reformer" Tsongkhapa and  
>> his followers who seem to have been amongst those held the view that HYT  
>> practice required a physical karmamudra - and that complete enlightenment was  
>> impossible without it. 

> I was thinking of some Sakyapas actually, who attacked Gampopa's "Suutra Mahaamudraa". 
> In reaction to those attacks, plus because of a sort coup d'état by the yogis the Kagyupa 
> school became more tantra oriented than it was initially. Even nowadays the Sakyapa are the 
> most militant and the less intransigeant when it comes to HYT.   

Tsongkhapa was initially looked upon as a Sakyapa - and his main students came 
from that tradition - so the Geluk interpretation of Tantra is I think heavily 
influenced by that of the Sakya.

A few random thoughts on the Kagyu - there are so many different strands...

I don't know abut a "coup d'état by the yogis" in the Kagyu tradition -  Until 
succession by tulkus took over, most succession in the Kagyu establishments 
seems to have been from father to son - or from uncle to nephew, where the 
lineage holder was a monk with no children. There are also several instances in 
some early Kagyu lineages where monks openly married to have a successor because 
there was no nephew.  Sometimes they got re-ordained as a monk once there was an 
heir.

Also in the early days what many people would now consider to be the "tantric 
yogi" Kagyupas had lineages via Rechungpa, Lama Ngok and so on - and many of 
these yogis openly had wives and consorts.  - of course some of these guys were 
rather unorthodox, not the sort some more establishment tantrikas would like.

Then there is the whole thing of tulkus becoming the preferred means of 
succession, which took place much earlier in some Kagyu branches than in others, 
combined with the Kadampa ideal of monasticism - and the idea that this monastic 
ordination had to be for life.

Many important Kagyupas after the time of Gampopa also had Sakyapa teachers - 
and Sakya was of course the dominant political power at the time so maybe their 
more "orthodox" of HYT being the only way prevailed. This kind of "tantric view" 
with the lord/yidam deity at the center of the mandala is also a great way of 
legitimizing rule by a family such as the Sakya.

Keeping possible rivals s celibate monks might be seen as a good way of ensuring 
that only your family has the ongoing "tantric legitimacy".

Succession by tulkus - rather than by family - could be seen as enabling the 
monastic establishment and/or the local warlord, who perhaps by this time is 
someone who doesn't belong to the family lineage, to more easily control or 
usurp the succession and gain the same kind of legitimacy - perhaps even more 
so. (The dispute regarding the Drukpa succession of Ralung following the death 
of Padma Karpo is perhaps a good example.)

A tulku reincarnation can also be held up as a proof of the previous 
incarnation's mastery of yoga and its ongoing nature. What better way of 
preventing any one else being the successor than claiming you have the same guy 
in a brand new body? You can also claim that your lama is even more powerful
than one in a family succession since your guy has overcome death.

Of course then the danger is a rival may decide to discover competing tulku and 
manage to convince people he is the "true" incarnation and that yours is "false" 
- or someone may come up with an incarnation behind your back before you find a 
suitable candidate.

Of course there is the creative way of splitting up the
succession by discovering body, speech, mind, & etc. incarnations...
That way everyone can get a share of the action.

Such seemingly impure thoughts... OM VAJRASATTVA HUM.

Of course it's all just the play of heruka and their dakini.

- Chris