[Buddha-l] flat earth?

[curt]

Bob Zeuschner wrote:
> Hi Curt --
> You are asserting that the Church officials in the middle ages knew 
> that the earth was a sphere, correct?
> If so, can you produce anything written in that era to support the claim?
>
> I'm fairly familiar with the major theologians of the period 
> (including Aquinas), and I'm not able to recall anywhere that the 
> claim that the earth is s sphere is made.

Hermannus Contactus (Hermann of Reichenau) was an 11th century Christian 
scholar (he was beatified in 1863). He built astrolabes and wrote 
instructions on their construction. Supposedly he is credited with 
calculating the circumference of the earth, but I haven't been able to 
verify that for sure. He lived during a time when Europeans were 
starting to (re)learn some basic science from the Muslim world, and 
Hermann's knowledge of astrolabes must have come from (directly or 
indirectly) Arabic language sources. It was Muslim scientists, by the 
way, who provided the (incorrect) calculations of the earth's 
circumference on which Columbus based his expedition. Columbus did have 
a novel theory about the earth - not that it was spherical, which 
everyone knew, but that it was significantly smaller than generally 
believed. It turns out that everyone not only knew the earth was round, 
but they knew roughly how big it was. Their measurements were very 
unreliable, and so estimates of the earth's circumference varied a great 
deal. The calculation that inspired Columbus so grossly underestimate 
the circumference of the earth that it put Japan right about where 
"America" turned out to be (actually he thought it was EVEN closer than 
that!) The irony is that Columbus was wrong and "conventional wisdom" 
was right!

The case of Thomas Aquinas, however, appears to be rather clear cut: 
"Sciences are distinguished by the different methods they use. For the 
astronomer and the physicist both may prove the same conclusion - that 
the earth, for instance, is round: the astronomer proves it by means of 
mathematics, but the physicist proves it by the nature of matter." ( 
 From "Summa Theologica": 
http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP001.html#FPQ1A1THEP1 ) The 
matter-of-factness of Aquinas' statement is rather telling.

Dante's teacher, Brunneto Latino, also wrote concerning the roundness of 
the Earth (see: http://www.the-orb.net/non_spec/missteps/ch7.html ).
> The way I recall it is that the Church demanded that everyone accept 
> the claim that the earth was the center of the universe, and 
> absolutely denied that the earth moved through space.

Yes, this is definitely the case - at least it was so when Galileo was 
around.

>
> Both claims are compatible with a flat earth (surrounded by spheres of 
> aether) or a spherical earth (surrounded by spheres).
>
> That the Church of the middle ages accepted Aristotle's model is NOT 
> evidence that the church accepted the claim that the earth was a sphere.
> Maybe they did. Aristotle did not.
>
> Can you jog my memory with a statement to that effect from the period?
>
> As I said before, my understanding is that the scientific astronomical 
> claims of the Greeks were discounted by Church officials; thus one 
> cannot conclude that (a) the Greeks knew the earth was an oblate 
> spheroid and therefore (b) all intelligent Christians of the middle 
> ages accepted the claim.
> Thanks.
> Bob
>
>