[Buddha-l] Back to the core values?

[James A Stroble]

On Monday 11 June 2007 06:46, curt wrote:
> James A. Stroble wrote:
> > .... Batchelor contrasts the political milleu Buddhism has co-existed
<snip>
>
> I think that an objective, hard-nosed look at western culture over the
> last 500 years would not support any contention that "we" have some
> clear superiority in terms of "political ideals". 
<abridgment>

Well, yes, this is obvious.  But we are talking about ideals here, not actual 
history.  The ideals of the American Revolution are not impinged, however, by 
the fact that the liberties were only, at the time, actually granted to 
property-holding free white males. The hypocrisy belongs to the people 
implementing the ideas, not to the ideals themselves. I don't know if this 
objection touches Batchelor's point. 

> Buddhists, of all people, should refrain from blindly accepting mere
> usage of words like democracy and freedom with the real thing.
>
> As far as "pre-modern Asians" coming "face to face" with our "liberal
> traditions", well, Europeans began "visiting" the Indian subcontinent
> around the same time those good Christians first started exporting
> democracy to the "New World". By the 17th century Buddhists, Hindus and
> other interested parties had been introduced to the wonders of the
> artillery fusillade, Trinitarianism, and the Auto de fe. When was the
> curriculum for this "course of instruction" in western values updated?
> Was it before or after the Nazi holocaust, and the atom bombing of
> Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If it was after - then this is a very recent
> change of tune - if before it is difficult to take seriously.
>
> - Curt

Again, we are not talking "whiteman's burden" here, but the claim that 
Batchelor makes that liberation should be both personal and political.  Quite 
obviously, even if western powers mouthed such ideology, the did little to 
bring it about, and even worked to the contrary.   But the discussion here 
(or am I conflating two completely different threads?) started with the 
concept of karma, and the use of karma to justify political oppression, even 
if passively.  The christian corrolary would be the doctrine of 
predestination.  What is interesting is whether things like socially-engaged 
Buddhism are a purely western Buddhist phenomena.  We could go around and 
around about the liberatory influence of religion East and West, but the 
question still remains, are the critiques of Victoria and Batchelor 
justified?  Otherwise we will be left with pot: kettle, black. 


-- 
James Andy Stroble
University of Hawai'i, Leeward Community College