[Buddha-l] Re: Natural lucidity for Socrates

[L.S. Cousins]

Dan,

>Hi Lance,
>
>The Ajivikas are another candidate, but while I've never heard of 
>Ajivika missionaries or settlements in Central Asia or further west, 
>such was the case for Jains.

As regards missionaries they tend to be identified as Jains when they 
are more likely to be Ajiivakas. What is the evidence for Jain 
settlements in Central Asia or 'further west' ?

>  Also, when one examines the details of the versions of such 
>practices adopted by the Manichaeans, they have an distinctively 
>Jain flavor.

I have not seen anything which seemed plausible to me.

>  Similarly, the "light" etc. imagery in the account accords well 
>with Jaina sarvaj~naa theories, with the jiiva liberated from its 
>karmic, bodily bonds floating aloft into the universe.
>
>Dan Lusthaus

Well, no. I would have thought that such light mysticism has old 
roots in both Jewish mysticism and in Platonism. And was probably 
shared between Jains, Ajiivakas and 'proto-Saam.khya' Upanishadic 
strands. What is striking here is the non-Jain emphases on the deity 
and on 'discourse'. This links to Vedic notions of speech and sound 
and to proto-Saam.khya notions of multiple levels of the divine. All 
of this could be Aajiivaka as well. They clearly belong to the same 
milieu and may well have been more important than the Jains at this 
time.

Lance

from the earlier posts:
>  These affirm that God is light, not such as one sees, nor such as 
>the sun and fire; but to them the Deity is discourse, not that which 
>finds expression in articulate sounds, but that of the knowledge 
>through which the secret mysteries of nature are perceived by the 
>wise. And this light which they say is discourse, their god, they 
>assert that the Brachmans only know on account of their alone 
>rejecting all vanity of opinion which is the sours ultimate covering.

and

>  And this discourse which they name God they assert to be corporeal, 
>and enveloped in a body outside himself, just as if one were wearing 
>a sheep's skin, but that on divesting himself of body that he would 
>appear clear to the eye.


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