[Buddha-l] Re: there he goes again (samharris)

[Joy Vriens]

Hi Lance,

>>They could have spared themselves centuries of polemics on the  
>>prevalence of the one over the other. I also do remember distinctly  
>>Eliade writing about an opposition between dhammayogins and jhaayins. 
 
>The is precisely one discourse (out of thousands) which mentions this  
>and the main point of that discourse is that both are of great value.  
>We do not know if the discourse is given because there is some  
>disagreement between the two or because the author of that discourse  
>wanted to head off the possibility. But the latter seems more likely,  
>given the lack of supporting evidence. 

The one, if it is exceptional and has been integrated in the canon, has more weight in my eyes than the many, especially if it relates a conflict. 
This one discourse seems to be AN 6.46 Cunda Sutta: 

"Therefore, friends, you should train yourselves thus: `Though we ourselves are Dhamma-experts, we will praise also those monks who are meditators.' And why? Such outstanding men are rare in the world who have personal experience of the deathless element (Nibbaana). "And the other monks, too, should train themselves thus: `Though we ourselves are meditators, we will praise also those monks who are Dhamma-experts.' And why? Such outstanding persons are rare in the world who can by their wisdom clearly understand a difficult subject."

What would this opposition be about if the jhaanas  were a process of developing mindfulness AND clear comprehension? Why the opposition? Or is the view that the jhaanas  are a process of developing mindfulness AND clear comprehension a sort of compromise following the opposition that Anguttara Nikaya 6.46 mentions? In my student experience, and I even find it back in Buddhadasa teachings, there is a distinction between the jhanas and vipassana. Buddhadasa somewhere suggests to condense the various jhana steps into one and to pass on to vipassana.

Could it be that right from the start, there was a clear opposition or difference of approach or accentuation in early Buddhism between Jhaayins and Dhammayoga bikkhus? Where e.g. Sariputta and Maha-Moggallana represent the analytical wisdom approach?  

Joy