[Buddha-l] Re: What are the "joys of living"?

[Vicente Gonzalez]

Mike wrote:

MA> From my side, both the teachings and
MA> the experiences indicate that lust leads to dukkha.  If someone else has
MA> read differently and experienced differently,  all I can suggest is that
MA> he looks again. That would not be the position of an arbiter, but I hope
MA> it would be the position of a concerned companion.

Yes. I think lust and sex are useful because they lead to
disenchantment. I think that everybody should taste the pleasures
of this world before assuming any strict moral schema.

Vinaya rules are only suitable for monks. Any lay person who try to
assume Vinaya without leaving home, he can experience dukkha or he
will be discouraged of Buddhism. For this same reason, Buddha
established only five precepts for the lay people; because "leaving
home" it's a process arising from disenchantment. Never from some
adoption of morality rules.

Same Siddharta, when himself was a lay man, he was in company of many
girls. According Suttas, "he was never alone". Disenchantment of
Siddharta was not an intellectual conclusion,
No lay person can expect to be disenchanted of sex by following Vinaya
monks rules. It is a bizarre idea. This only increase the impulse to
get more of these forbidden things. 

To get disenchantment, we should observe the Siddharta life. In this
way, everybody should taste the pleasure of the world to understand
impermanence of worldly happiness. It is what Gautama life show to us.

Philosophy against hormones it's a lost battle from the beginning.
On the contrary, if one copulate as a rabbit many days, after short
time he will see sex as something empty, even nasty. He will be
disenchanted of sex.

We can read in Majjhima Nikaya that any person developing awareness
meditation with a solid intention, he can realize the truth in the
next 15 days.

If instead this solid intention, a person is engaged in meditation
flooded with false ideas about the effects of his own good moral
actions, it will be a lost of time.

However, a person can dance salsa until the morning and having a lot
of sex until she become disenchanted. If next day this person is
sincerely engaged in meditation with a solid and clear mind, she can
reach samadhi and realizing emptiness before two weeks. 

In short, Nirvana is not an effect of previous causes.



best regards,