[Buddha-l] Re: Soccer mad monks too tired to take alms

[[DPD Web] Shen Shi'an]

Er... Merits are gained by offering what is needed to whoever needs it -
regardless of their status :-]

-----Original Message-----
From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com
[mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of jkirk
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:52 PM
To: Buddhist discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Re: Soccer mad monks too tired to take alms

Oh my--------and let it be noted, one gains no merit by offering the
alms food to the mae chi (quasi nuns in every monastery).
Joanna
================
mjwilson wrote:

I have met Tibetan ani, and Corean biguni, but not the mae chi.  I think
they don't shave their heads right, so they are kind of quasi
nuns?.............
============
The Thai mae chi do shave their heads, wear white, and serve the monks
by cooking, cleaning, sweeping, laundry, etc. I said "quasi nuns"
because they cannot be ordained, according to the current Theravada
sangha rules, that justify this policy on the basis that female
ordination was lost in Thai history. Same in Sri Lanka.

So women wanting to be ordained nuns in those countries, usually go to
China or Taiwan and get ordained there, then they often return to the
home country and join or start regular monasteries for nuns. However,
this official liability has not stopped one or two mae chi in Thailand
from becoming famous meditation teachers, attracting large mumbers of
devotees and fame. 
There is also a nunnery for bhikhunis in Thailand begun by a Thai woman
who went elsewhere to be ordained (who knows, there now may be more of
these institutions). She has occasional run-ins with the official
sangha, who still won't accept that she and her fellow nuns are really
ordained, because they got ordained in a Mahayana tradition.

In Ladakh, where Tibetan Buddhism prevails, donating to nuns also does
not acquire merit for the donor, whereas donating to monks does.  The
bhikkhuni ordination traditionally was said to have been lost in Tibet,
and this idea is maintained in Ladakh. The higher the monk in the
monastic hierarchy, the more the merit that accrues from supporting him
with gifts, donations, etc. 
Allowing a daughter to join a nunnery does acquire a modicum of merit
for a family, but not equal at all to merit acquired by a son taking
permanent vows. After she joins up, she and the other nuns have to work
their butts off supporting their nunnery because they don't get support
from the community analogous to what's regularly donated to monks.
Ladakhi nuns also may not perform Buddhist rituals for donors, a source
of income for a monastery.  Parents of a nun will donate toward their
support, not only because they are their children, but mainly because
they work in the parents' fields. Daughters (as opposed let's say to
orphans) are expected to continue working in family fields during
various agricultural seasons of the year, nuns or not.
See my review of an excellent study on nuns in Ladakh, by Kim Gutschow,
in the _Journal of Buddhist Ethics_ (
http://jbe.gold.ac.uk/12/current12.html ) if you can't get the book:
_Being a Buddhist Nun: The Struggle for Enlightenment in the Himalayas_,
Harvard U.P., 2004.

Joanna 

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