[Buddha-l] Re: To whom should teachings be given

[Vicente Gonzalez]

Benito wrote:

BC>    I  wonder  if  this  has  ever  been  true or just a
BC> monastic  myth  in  order  to keep the supporting laity
BC> happy.

yes, there is not doubt about the spreading of mahayana in
China was in charge of monks. However, the point is the doctrinal
acceptance of the lay life as a valid way to enlightenment.
It is a radical change.

BC> Where are  the scholastic works written by lay students?
BC> Where are the lineages held by lay students? Were are the
BC> records of  the  great  lay masters?

Translation of Sutras were the main vehicle to spread the new
teaching, and we don't know if these were composed by lay people,
monks, or both.


BC> Mahayana has mostly been a
BC> monastic endeavour, as Buddhism has always been. Surely
BC> there is some lay evidence, just the necessary in order
BC> to  preserve  the  myth.

people like Marpa were source for Buddhist lineages. Shin Buddhism
becomes a complete lay school. Then it is not a simple myth.


BC>    If   you  can  help  me  to  understand  Nagarjuna's
BC> feminine  side, specially in relationship with the MMK,
BC> I will be most thankful.

read my message to Erik H.


BC>    As  I  have  already  explained, Mahayana has been a
BC> monastic  endeavor,  and the monastic power was held by
BC> men, as today, as always has been.
BC>    A  couple of them, see above. You can also read some
BC> well-known  passages  from  the  _Lotus Sutra,_ just in
BC> order to appreciate better the Mahayana feminine side.

I know but I'm not talking of all the mahayana history and world.
Just I'm talking about the development of the prajanaparamita
and related works in the early  mahayana. The time distance between
Prajnaparamita regarding Lotus Sutra can be near 300 years.

In example, read the difference with Sutra of the Lion's Roar of Queen
Srimala (around 100 b.c):

"Mallika had a daughter by Pasenadi; no mention is made of a son.
He is said to have been disappointed on hearing that the child was a
girl; but the Buddha assured him that women were sometimes wiser than
men".

Srimala refers to Abdhidharma; so here she is the Queen of Abhidharma.
She was a woman Boddhisatva of the 10 state; impossible to accept in
those times and in fact some centuries later Shotoku changes to 7
stage. The text uses "a good son or good daughter" all the time,
and sometimes changing the order to put first the women and later the
men. Also, Buddha  becomes a woman.... I think little doubt that this
Sutra arises from a woman. 


BC>    It's   quite   easy  to  understand,  but  far  more
BC> difficult  to admit (for some people). We can't project
BC> our  egalitarian  (individualistic)  philosophy  to the
BC> early  Buddhist traditions.

not my intention. Just I point the possibility that Mahayana
arises because doctrinal differences involving a gender problem.


BC> For early Buddhists, if you
BC> were  born  as  a  woman,  that was because of your bad
BC> karma,  and  if  you  were  lucky  enough, you would be
BC> reborn  as a man (hopefully a monk one) in some distant
BC> future.

precisely. So read works as Queen's Srimala Sutra or simply, look
the prajnaparamita representations in art.

How do you explain that some men, pervaded with the truths
that you explain, they put a woman as the "goddess of wisdom",
and named her the "mother of Buddhas", and later they write
teachings about a woman who was the Queen of Abhidharma?

To celebrate the mother's day?


best regards,